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Building 440 to 500 stroker #2598648
12/30/18 01:12 AM
12/30/18 01:12 AM
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'73-Charger-440 Offline OP
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So I'm thinking of building my 440 out of a 73 Monaco to a 500 stroker engine from 440 source, my question is what should I do so the trans/rear end won't blow up the first time I floor it? The rear end is a 8 3/4 and trans is 727. I want it so I can cruise to car shows, rather than just trailer it, and strong enough to take to the strip. Any recommendations on heads, cam, etc, would also be appreciated! (It's going in my 73 Charger project.)

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598668
12/30/18 02:13 AM
12/30/18 02:13 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Welcome here. I would suggest the 440source stealth heads. I am gonna get a 543 kit for my 440 block


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598683
12/30/18 03:27 AM
12/30/18 03:27 AM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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It depends on how you build the engine as well as how you use the car. If you are using it for street use and not drag racing with slicks then the rear end should be fine. You can have the transmission rebuilt with HD parts to handle the extra power. Just have it rebuilt as a Hemi trans and you should be fine.

Heads, cam, intake, etc. choices are all based on how you plan to use the car. For street use you'll want to stay conservative with those parts. Keep the compression down around 10:1, use a hyd flat tappet or hyd roller cam, a dual plane intake, etc.

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: AndyF] #2598785
12/30/18 02:03 PM
12/30/18 02:03 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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Andy's right. Traction and intended use will dictate what might be needed to be done with the drive train.

I had a 727 and 8 3/4 behind a 499" for years. Did a lot of KOS with it, too. Most of it done with drag radials. They held up good.

So, with good parts and good builders, a 727 and 8 3/4 would probably hold up well for you.

As to what cam, heads, and intake to pair with the cubes, tell us what power level you want, what you want to do with it, and how much drive-ability you are willing to sacrifice to get it.


KOS
Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598789
12/30/18 02:09 PM
12/30/18 02:09 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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The 4.25" stroke kits, often called 512" kits, but really 505" with 0.030" overbore, are really popular. There are three standard piston dish size choices, flat tops, -17cc, and -27cc. and the smaller 2.20" connecting rod journal size makes the rods clear the block with almost no clearancing needed, except maybe around the oil pickup tube boss.
The 8-3/4" can handle quite a bit of abuse and should not be an issue unless your running quicker than 12.0. Some RedLine ShockProod gear oil will help protect the rear gears.
The trans can be rebuilt with some HD clutches and kolene steels. Get a 4-clutch front drum if the trans only has a 3-Clutch drum. Add a TransGoTF-2 Shift kit and transmission cooler. Make sure the driveshaft U-Joints are in good condition and add a driveshaft safety loop.
You may need some rear suspension help to prevent axle wrap?

Heads and cam will depend on power level you want.
Currently building a 505 stroker with Trick Flow 240 heads and a small solid roller cam. Not a low budget build, the cost of the recommend HS rocker arms really took a jump in price in the last few years.

Don't forget small stuff like HD motor mounts and/or limiting device so you don't rip the motor mounts apart.

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: DaveRS23] #2598810
12/30/18 02:51 PM
12/30/18 02:51 PM
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'73-Charger-440 Offline OP
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I'm wanting to play in the 400-500 hp area, but nothing too much over, I wan't to keep it so I can cruise comfortably to Iola car show, (which is about 100 miles one way)

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598820
12/30/18 03:08 PM
12/30/18 03:08 PM
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Oregon
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A 440 block with a 4.25 inch stroke crank will easily make 500 hp while still having a dead stock type idle. You'll just need to pick the right parts and resist the urge to turn it into a race engine. If you build it like the Chevy 502 or a Cadillac 500 inch engine then you'll have a very smooth performer that will easily take you down the road and give you decent fuel economy and reliability. Just stay small with the heads and cam and you'll be fine. Don't let anyone talk you into a big cam or a big carb.

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: AndyF] #2598824
12/30/18 03:14 PM
12/30/18 03:14 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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RUNCHARGER Offline
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You can fall off a log and make 450HP with a stock stroke 440 too if you want save a few dollars.


Sheldon
Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598825
12/30/18 03:18 PM
12/30/18 03:18 PM
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Posts: 32,433
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Shock to the drivetrain is what usually break parts, spinning and then dead hooking is bad tsk down Your way better off dead hooking the car to start with than spinning and hooking and spinning some more tsk
The converter will play a big part in getting the drive train to last, buy a really good one to start with, don't take any chances on them tsk
On the U joints if yours has grease fitting in them they may break once you make the car hook hard, quicker than .50 or faster in the 60 ft. Solid H.D U joints like Neapco severe duty are needed in a half way serious drag car (faster than 12.00 flat at your car weight)
Cam, carb. and intake choice will make the motor perform good or better work
On your deal I would go with a set of Eddy RPM heads and a Eddy Performer RPM with a cam that works well between 2400 to 6000 RPM and plan on shifting at or a little above 6000 RPM, this combination in a 440 with a 4.250 stroke with 10.5 to 1 or near that will run excellent on 91 octane pump swill and make over 550 HP with similar torque work up scope
Keep in mind that I am a old time racer that hasn't gone fast enough to make me not want to go faster realcrazy
My last pump gas street and strip Duster ran 9.999 at 134.+ MPH with the full exhaust on with the air cleaner with a 518 C.I. low deck 400 stroker motor with a set of Indy SR max wedge heads and single 1050 Holley Domintor up
That car weighed 3450 Lbs. with me in it and it was blast to drive and race boogie

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/30/18 03:24 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598839
12/30/18 03:51 PM
12/30/18 03:51 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,078
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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On a budget, the Edelbrock 5090 E-street 75cc heads are a good choice. The 440 source stealth head is decent if you want more of an original appearance. Both can reuse the stock rocker gear if using a mild flat tappet hydraulic cam. If trying to save money, use a cam that will work with the valve spring specs that come with the heads.
With 75cc heads, use the 27cc dished pistons for about 10:1 compression.
If using 84cc heads, the 17cc dish piston is about 10:1 compression also.
Something like the Comp Cams XE275HL would be pretty tame in a 500" engine. I haven't verified it, but I think the cam would work with the Edelbrock valve springs. You could use a larger cam for more power, but most likely will need to replace the valve springs.

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: Cab_Burge] #2598844
12/30/18 04:03 PM
12/30/18 04:03 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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Cab brings up a good point about the converter. I have struggled with getting a good street friendly converter. Most just aren't good street converters given the torque our strokers produce.

Lenny at Ultimate finally put one together for me that is tight enough for a mostly street car.

One thing to keep in mind is that when we upgrade to one of these 500+" torque monsters, almost everything under the car will have to be considered and possibly upgraded to handle the massive change.


KOS
Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598860
12/30/18 04:53 PM
12/30/18 04:53 PM
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tucson az
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frank Offline
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If the car won't hook up and the rear is in good shape then it should last, however I would upgrade to a Dana or S60.

I did a 440/500 build a few years ago.
440 Source stroker kit
Pro Form 850 DP carb
Edlebrock heads with mild port work
Holley SD intake
Hydraulic roller 242/248 at 50 and 589 lift
9.7: compression
MSD pro billet distributer

This combination made 570 HP at 5500 rpm and 633 torque at 4400 rpm

I can drive this car all day long with no issues. It is a very fun car to drive

Frank

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: Cab_Burge] #2598972
12/30/18 10:26 PM
12/30/18 10:26 PM
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WI
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'73-Charger-440 Offline OP
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Thanks for the great info, although I believe the post 72 440 blocks are only rated to 6000 rpms, so I get nervous playing with the idea of pushing it too far, last thin I want is to send a rod into outer space.

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598977
12/30/18 10:45 PM
12/30/18 10:45 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Originally Posted By '73-Charger-440
Thanks for the great info, although I believe the post 72 440 blocks are only rated to 6000 rpms, so I get nervous playing with the idea of pushing it too far, last thin I want is to send a rod into outer space.


Elon Musk just did that!

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2598983
12/30/18 10:56 PM
12/30/18 10:56 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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Originally Posted By '73-Charger-440
Thanks for the great info, although I believe the post 72 440 blocks are only rated to 6000 rpms, so I get nervous playing with the idea of pushing it too far, last thin I want is to send a rod into outer space.


I have shifted the 77 block in my Cuda at 6,000+ for over 10 years. But it is certainly a good idea to hold the RPMs to a minimum when possible. Regardless of the year.

Really never heard of an RPM limit on any given year block. work


KOS
Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: DaveRS23] #2599026
12/31/18 12:39 AM
12/31/18 12:39 AM
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'73-Charger-440 Offline OP
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I believe it has something to do with the lower compression in the 73+ engines that made the rpm range lower, I remember watching pete's garage on his 440 build that he mentioned something about the ranges.

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2599034
12/31/18 01:10 AM
12/31/18 01:10 AM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted By '73-Charger-440
I believe it has something to do with the lower compression in the 73+ engines that made the rpm range lower, I remember watching pete's garage on his 440 build that he mentioned something about the ranges.


That doesn't apply when you rebuild the engine using different parts. When you change all of the parts the rpm range will also change. Bottom line what you are trying to accomplish is very easy for someone who has experience building these engines. You just need to make sure that whoever you work with to build the engine understands what you want since most guys building 500 inch stroker engines are looking for a street/strip type of build. For your engine the proper parts need to be selected. This won't be an issue for an experienced engine builder since the parts you need all exist.

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: AndyF] #2599051
12/31/18 01:48 AM
12/31/18 01:48 AM
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'73-Charger-440 Offline OP
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I only plan on sending the block in to get machined, my father owns a shop and is very experienced in building engines, but he's a chevy guy and refuses to help me with what I should get, on the other hand he will help me build the engine becuase he's my dad after all.

Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2599095
12/31/18 07:21 AM
12/31/18 07:21 AM
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Balt. Md
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I have been running a basically stock 727 and 8-3/4 behind my 493 since 2011 with no issue at all yet. I built the 727 using mostly all Mopar parts other then the bolt in sprag and Turbo Action reverse manual valve body. I did a few other minor tricks to it but all the clutches and steels are stock Mopar parts for the 727. My 8-3/4 rear is all stock other then the Detroit locker I put in it when my factory spider and axle gears broke a few teeth. But you have to be smart on how you use the car. I race my car about once a year and sometimes twice a year at the most. I use a Dynamic 9.5 street/strip type converter and it works great on the street and the track for a mild street/strip car.

I run a 30 x 9 Hoosier radial slick on the street and track. But I don't street race at all and rarely do burnouts on the street as I basically drive it normal when cruising on the street. Besides when I do a burnout on the street all the rocks then stick to the tires for a bit until they cool off and that's a pain in the butt. I do drive the 45 miles to my local track and race it as I usually put at least three passes on it and sometimes more if I win some rounds in the NSS class.

All in all I drive it easy and normal on the street and leave my burnouts and full throttle launches to the track. And my 727 and 8-3/4 rear have been holding up fine for 7 years and still going strong. I do want to put a Dana in it one day when I can afford to buy one so I have one less worry when I go racing. But if you drive the car normal on the street your trans and rear should hold up fine. If you drive it like you are racing at every redlite on the street then I would worry about it. Just drive it easy on the street and you will be fine for cruising as long as you want. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 12/31/18 07:23 AM.
Re: Building 440 to 500 stroker [Re: '73-Charger-440] #2599135
12/31/18 12:01 PM
12/31/18 12:01 PM
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"my question is what should I do so the trans/rear end won't blow up the first time I floor it?"

The biggest problem I've had with my 74 Charger (440 with 420hp/510flb) was the rear suspension. There's more rubber in the oval shaped leaf spring mounts of the 73-74 Chargers. The rear suspension lets the axel wrap up and breaks things like u-joints, drive shafts and pinion yokes. I plan to change over to 71-72 type leaf springs and possibly a set of Cal-tracks.

A stroker 440 would be very cool, but if you only want 400-500hp, you might find it a unnecessary expense.

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