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Hemi oil consumption #2570802
10/28/18 11:39 PM
10/28/18 11:39 PM
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Tennessee
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Hemi ragtop Offline OP
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I know this is a "racer" forum, but it is also an engine forum so I am hoping to glean some knowledge from the engine builders on here.
Basically, I have an oil consumption problem that I've been chasing for years. The block, crank, pistons, rods and heads were all new. I used a HEMI engine builder to final assemble the engine, but the bore and hone, balance etc. was done by none other than the late Butch Elkins of Diamond racing.
There has never been a trace of blow by, indeed, I have installed a one way valve with clear glass reservoir in the PVC line and never had more than three drops of oil collect in a year.
Intake seal was brought up, I fixed that with Superformance gaskests as the pictures show. Yet the engine used a quart in 120 miles! Here are pictures of the intake valves, is it possible to see that much oil go by the guides? Factory new MP aluminum heads.
Also, look at the rocker to valve, both open and closed and tell me if my geometery is close.
Thanks in advance for all the help and years of experience that are available on this site.

intake seal 2018.jpgIntake valve.jpgvalve geometery 2018.jpgvalve geometery.jpg
Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570821
10/29/18 12:31 AM
10/29/18 12:31 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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There are only a few ways that oil can get into the combustion chambers to be used up, correct?
Rings, cylinder walls, valve guides, intake manifold, spark plug threads, or PCV system work
So it either one or several different things doing that work
Use your ability to determine what EXACTLY is causing it, your eyes on scope
We can and will help but you are the doctor on scene up
I'm going to assume no external leaks, correct?
More feed back is needed, now get to work wrench grin


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570831
10/29/18 12:53 AM
10/29/18 12:53 AM
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Utah and Alaska
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Plugs?


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Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: astjp2] #2570853
10/29/18 03:32 AM
10/29/18 03:32 AM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Originally Posted By astjp2
Plugs?
an

Will tell what cylinders are burning,,,,,,but your pics are clean! work


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My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: hemi-itis] #2570869
10/29/18 08:06 AM
10/29/18 08:06 AM
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Tennessee
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Hemi ragtop Offline OP
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Here is what the plugs look like, all of them. Also the tailpipe chalks up on a 126 mile drive. But, that is the same trip that used a quart of oil, in 126 miles.
It looks like the valve guides are the culprit, is it possible for that much oil to go down the guides?
No blow by, no oil in PVC line and no external leaks.

exhaust 2.jpgspark plug.jpg
Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570870
10/29/18 08:12 AM
10/29/18 08:12 AM
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Tennessee
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Hemi ragtop Offline OP
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If guides are the problem, then I wonder if roller rockers would help. That is why I put pictures of the open and closed valves. Does the geometry look ok? Would Roller Rockers help the guides last longer?

Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570883
10/29/18 10:34 AM
10/29/18 10:34 AM
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The Great White North
RAMM Offline
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What piston rings? If they are Total seal Gapless you've found your problem. J.Rob


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Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570905
10/29/18 11:29 AM
10/29/18 11:29 AM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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The compression rings could be OK causing little blowby. But the oil rings, drain backs in the piston, or excessive oil on the cylinder wall could be the culprit. The ports,and intake gasket's look good to me. Cant see the valve well enough. Looks to have some build up. How many miles on the ebgine? Definately has oil on the plug.
Doug

Last edited by dvw; 10/29/18 01:08 PM.
Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570914
10/29/18 11:43 AM
10/29/18 11:43 AM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
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I've never torn down a 426 Hemi that the guides weren't worn out. I've always felt the roller rockers were better for the guides. Does it smoke when you let off the gas? Isn't that supposed to be guides? Every Hemi I've ever had guzzled oil. They still ran great. Different/better than any other car made. By the way a quart every 126 miles wouldn't bother me at all. I bought my cars used and they drank that much. That's only a quart when you fill up. I always had to do that. You say you have an oil consumption problem. If it runs perfect and the tailpipe is clean, what's the problem? I realize your engine is fairly new and you think it shouldn't burn oil, but that hasn't been my experience. If my new truck burned a quart between 10,000 mile oil changes it would bother me.


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Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570933
10/29/18 12:17 PM
10/29/18 12:17 PM
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lewtot184 Offline
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i'd find out what ring pak is in it before I went any further. also, could that "crust" on the plugs be water/anti-freeze?

Last edited by lewtot184; 10/29/18 12:18 PM.
Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570951
10/29/18 12:48 PM
10/29/18 12:48 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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It looks like it’s got the white Teflon seals on it.

Those would be the first thing I’d change.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2570979
10/29/18 01:56 PM
10/29/18 01:56 PM
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Mine used a lot of oil until we put umbrella seals on it. They're silicone and stand up to heat. Silver Seal in MI was where we got them.
Seems to me the Hemi valvetrain tends to elongate/wobble the guides; always thought Landy's clamps that eliminated the shaft springs were a better idea.

Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2571000
10/29/18 02:19 PM
10/29/18 02:19 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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That plug does not look shiny(from oil consumption like your having) to me confused) A quart in 120 miles is a ton of oil consumption work
Fast68plymouth may have a very valid point on the valve seals work scope
How is the oil level? Over full will cause a lot of oil consumption very quickly work shruggy

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/29/18 02:20 PM.

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Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2571070
10/29/18 04:34 PM
10/29/18 04:34 PM
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Minnesota
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The picture is blurry, but that looks like a lot of carbon build up on the backside of the intake valve. That would indicate that the oil is going in thru the intake port. So either the intake guide, which like others have said, an umbrella seal would help; or intake manifold to head seal issue which you have addressed; or a crack in the the intake manifold that is hidden by the heat shield. Have you removed the heat shield and crack checked the intake?


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Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: RAMM] #2571222
10/29/18 08:38 PM
10/29/18 08:38 PM
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Tennessee
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Hemi ragtop Offline OP
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Originally Posted By RAMM
What piston rings? If they are Total seal Gapless you've found your problem. J.Rob

No, traditional moly file fit.

Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2571264
10/29/18 09:34 PM
10/29/18 09:34 PM
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Tennessee
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Thanks for the ideas and tips. I have a friend with an all aluminum hemi very similar build to this one that has put 2,000 miles on it this summer and never added a drop of oil, so I know it can be done.
I agree on the valve seals, that definitely need changing. I am thinking Viton.
My question is, with no blow by, now oil in the PVC tube, do you think that the valve guides and seals could use this much oil or do I need to pull the whole engine apart.

Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2571352
10/29/18 11:57 PM
10/29/18 11:57 PM
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I think I would change the valve seals and see if that helps before I pulled the engine apart.


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Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2571485
10/30/18 10:25 AM
10/30/18 10:25 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Originally Posted By Hemi ragtop
Thanks for the ideas and tips. I have a friend with an all aluminum hemi very similar build to this one that has put 2,000 miles on it this summer and never added a drop of oil, so I know it can be done.

I have one also that doesn't use oil, but I've told you that before. Even when my guides were worn bad, it still didn't use oil. Not saying all won't, but that's been my experience.
Using as much as it does, I'd be tearing into it to change rings.


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Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2571564
10/30/18 12:49 PM
10/30/18 12:49 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Fundamentally I agree with Chip.
It’s probably an oil control issue with the rings....... for one reason or another.

That being said, I’d swap out the intake seals first to rule that out before pulling the motor.
But honestly, I wouldn’t expect it to use a qt in 125 miles even if it had no valve seals.

As for worn guides....... I freshened and ported a set of iron hemi heads off a MP crate motor that had 70,000 miles on it........ the guides were still perfect. I was shocked...... but miracles happen every now and then.
Of course, I also went through a set that only had the dyno time on them...... that had a few ex guides with .009 clearance, and the tightest intake was about .005.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Hemi oil consumption [Re: fast68plymouth] #2571579
10/30/18 01:22 PM
10/30/18 01:22 PM
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Houston,Tx.
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Dwayne, whar guide clearance do you usually go for? And what seals do you recommend?

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