Hemi oil consumption
#2570802
10/28/18 11:39 PM
10/28/18 11:39 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984 Tennessee
Hemi ragtop
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Tennessee
|
I know this is a "racer" forum, but it is also an engine forum so I am hoping to glean some knowledge from the engine builders on here. Basically, I have an oil consumption problem that I've been chasing for years. The block, crank, pistons, rods and heads were all new. I used a HEMI engine builder to final assemble the engine, but the bore and hone, balance etc. was done by none other than the late Butch Elkins of Diamond racing. There has never been a trace of blow by, indeed, I have installed a one way valve with clear glass reservoir in the PVC line and never had more than three drops of oil collect in a year. Intake seal was brought up, I fixed that with Superformance gaskests as the pictures show. Yet the engine used a quart in 120 miles! Here are pictures of the intake valves, is it possible to see that much oil go by the guides? Factory new MP aluminum heads. Also, look at the rocker to valve, both open and closed and tell me if my geometery is close. Thanks in advance for all the help and years of experience that are available on this site.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2570821
10/29/18 12:31 AM
10/29/18 12:31 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,219 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,219
Bend,OR USA
|
There are only a few ways that oil can get into the combustion chambers to be used up, correct? Rings, cylinder walls, valve guides, intake manifold, spark plug threads, or PCV system So it either one or several different things doing that Use your ability to determine what EXACTLY is causing it, your eyes on We can and will help but you are the doctor on scene I'm going to assume no external leaks, correct? More feed back is needed, now get to work
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: astjp2]
#2570853
10/29/18 03:32 AM
10/29/18 03:32 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
|
an Will tell what cylinders are burning,,,,,,but your pics are clean!
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2570883
10/29/18 10:34 AM
10/29/18 10:34 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051 The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
|
What piston rings? If they are Total seal Gapless you've found your problem. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2570905
10/29/18 11:29 AM
10/29/18 11:29 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847 MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
|
The compression rings could be OK causing little blowby. But the oil rings, drain backs in the piston, or excessive oil on the cylinder wall could be the culprit. The ports,and intake gasket's look good to me. Cant see the valve well enough. Looks to have some build up. How many miles on the ebgine? Definately has oil on the plug. Doug
Last edited by dvw; 10/29/18 01:08 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2570914
10/29/18 11:43 AM
10/29/18 11:43 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,652 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,652
Stuttgart, Arkansas
|
I've never torn down a 426 Hemi that the guides weren't worn out. I've always felt the roller rockers were better for the guides. Does it smoke when you let off the gas? Isn't that supposed to be guides? Every Hemi I've ever had guzzled oil. They still ran great. Different/better than any other car made. By the way a quart every 126 miles wouldn't bother me at all. I bought my cars used and they drank that much. That's only a quart when you fill up. I always had to do that. You say you have an oil consumption problem. If it runs perfect and the tailpipe is clean, what's the problem? I realize your engine is fairly new and you think it shouldn't burn oil, but that hasn't been my experience. If my new truck burned a quart between 10,000 mile oil changes it would bother me.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2570933
10/29/18 12:17 PM
10/29/18 12:17 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
|
i'd find out what ring pak is in it before I went any further. also, could that "crust" on the plugs be water/anti-freeze?
Last edited by lewtot184; 10/29/18 12:18 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2570951
10/29/18 12:48 PM
10/29/18 12:48 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
It looks like it’s got the white Teflon seals on it.
Those would be the first thing I’d change.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2571070
10/29/18 04:34 PM
10/29/18 04:34 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,493 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,493
Minnesota
|
The picture is blurry, but that looks like a lot of carbon build up on the backside of the intake valve. That would indicate that the oil is going in thru the intake port. So either the intake guide, which like others have said, an umbrella seal would help; or intake manifold to head seal issue which you have addressed; or a crack in the the intake manifold that is hidden by the heat shield. Have you removed the heat shield and crack checked the intake?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: RAMM]
#2571222
10/29/18 08:38 PM
10/29/18 08:38 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984 Tennessee
Hemi ragtop
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Tennessee
|
What piston rings? If they are Total seal Gapless you've found your problem. J.Rob No, traditional moly file fit.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2571352
10/29/18 11:57 PM
10/29/18 11:57 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,153 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
|
Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,153
Benton, IL.
|
I think I would change the valve seals and see if that helps before I pulled the engine apart.
Master, again and still
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2571485
10/30/18 10:25 AM
10/30/18 10:25 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369
Marion, South Carolina [><]
|
Thanks for the ideas and tips. I have a friend with an all aluminum hemi very similar build to this one that has put 2,000 miles on it this summer and never added a drop of oil, so I know it can be done.
I have one also that doesn't use oil, but I've told you that before. Even when my guides were worn bad, it still didn't use oil. Not saying all won't, but that's been my experience. Using as much as it does, I'd be tearing into it to change rings.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
|
|
|
Re: Hemi oil consumption
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#2571564
10/30/18 12:49 PM
10/30/18 12:49 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
Fundamentally I agree with Chip. It’s probably an oil control issue with the rings....... for one reason or another.
That being said, I’d swap out the intake seals first to rule that out before pulling the motor. But honestly, I wouldn’t expect it to use a qt in 125 miles even if it had no valve seals.
As for worn guides....... I freshened and ported a set of iron hemi heads off a MP crate motor that had 70,000 miles on it........ the guides were still perfect. I was shocked...... but miracles happen every now and then. Of course, I also went through a set that only had the dyno time on them...... that had a few ex guides with .009 clearance, and the tightest intake was about .005.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
|
|