Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2566309
10/19/18 03:05 AM
10/19/18 03:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
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Nick,
You are filling in the blanks for the variables that affect your specific issue.
Like this...
You want 550hp You don't want to spin the motor past 6000
Those two specifics dictate a cubic inch requirement that is likely higher than 440...likely.
Now you add in the requirement that it be a stump puller (my words) off idle
Now your REALLY making things difficult, if not impossible.
Does that make sense? But strokers greatly increase low end torque correct? So its very difficult to have a good street driving 550 hp 440? Well "good street driving" is kinda vague and people define it differently, but you seem to be caught up in the fact that a performance cam won't pull like a freight train from 1000 rpm. It won't. But it's not a big deal, at least the way I define "good street driving". When it comes to camshaft selection, IF max RPM is a big factor for you (that's OK...MAX RPM is a big factor for many people and many engines!!!!!). Then a good selection technique is to select a cam with a max powerband that matches your max expected RPM. After all....why select a cam that's good to 6500 when you never expect to use it? The Lunati 60303 has a max powerband of about 6000, it's therefore a reasonable choice for you BASED ON MAX RPM. Now with that comes a minimum.....call it 2000. You have to live with it (at least in terms of THIS cam), but a powerband that starts at 2000 is pretty damn good, for a performance cam. If you select a cam that's lower....you're rapidly entering the realm of low-PO / stock cams and you simply are NOT going to make big power numbers. For example, you might find a cam whose powerband starts at 1500, but it's not going to make big power at 6000, and it's not going to reach your 550 hp goal. I think we need to rewind hahah, i didnt mean it would pull at low rpm, i meant itd be easier at a stoplight to go in everyday driving. Thats what i need to learn about cam rpm ranges. With a 2500-6500 cam would i need to slip the clutch at a higher rpm than a smaller cam? Sorry, i wasnt talking about launching, i meant in everyday driving. Do bigger cams require more rpm to move from a stop?
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566311
10/19/18 03:07 AM
10/19/18 03:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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This is an old dyno program, 440 with the small cam you want, 219,227 @ .050, & my heads that are close to the Trick Flow 240, this is gross HP.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566314
10/19/18 03:12 AM
10/19/18 03:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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This is the same 440 with the cam I run in my street car 512 cid Hyd roller.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: CSK]
#2566315
10/19/18 03:16 AM
10/19/18 03:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,909 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,909
Kirkland, Washington
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This is an old dyno program, 440 with the small cam you want, 219,227 @ .050, & my heads that are close to the Trick Flow 240, this is gross HP. Csk---where are you getting the 219 227 at 50 numbers. I don't know what the Lunati .050 numbers are but the .000 numbers are 268 272 ( I think)
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2566317
10/19/18 03:17 AM
10/19/18 03:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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This is an old dyno program, 440 with the small cam you want, 219,227 @ .050, & my heads that are close to the Trick Flow 240, this is gross HP. Csk---where are you getting the 219 227 at 50 numbers. I don't know what the Lunati .050 numbers are but the .000 numbers are 268 272 ( I think) The OP at the top, 1st post
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566319
10/19/18 03:23 AM
10/19/18 03:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,201 Oregon
AndyF
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I Win
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Posts: 31,201
Oregon
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Why don't you just copy my engine? I have a 512 inch big block in my '65 Coronet with a Doug Nash 5 speed and a 3.23 rearend gear. The engine made 575 hp on the dyno, 485 rwhp on the chassis dyno and it runs on pump gas. The compression ratio is 10:1, the cam is a hyd roller with 246/246 on 112. Heads are CNC ported, intake is Trick Flow, exhaust is cast iron manifolds and I'm using a Holley Sniper EFI system with Hyperspark ignition. I think it checks all the boxes you want checked. Figure on spending about $10,000 to get an engine like that built. Here is a video of it on the chassis dyno: https://youtu.be/xG3-_YJGdZ8
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566320
10/19/18 03:23 AM
10/19/18 03:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
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master
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Pattison Texas
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This is my 512, same as the 440, just has a stroker crank .I have not dynoed mine, but from the MPH at the track this is pretty close for a corrected for DA # 4050lb 1750 DA 11.33@ 121.1 in full street trim. this is a street car.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566360
10/19/18 10:23 AM
10/19/18 10:23 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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New York
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What's more important: That the advice is good, or that you understand what took them years to learn?
People who spent their time helping you are beginning to notice that when they answer your question YOU ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: CSK]
#2566379
10/19/18 11:25 AM
10/19/18 11:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571 Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440
mopar
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mopar
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Spring Hill Fl
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This is the same 440 with the cam I run in my street car 512 cid Hyd roller. Surprising for me to see the cam in your 440 made more HP than in your 512. I D/Led Dyno 200, trying to bumble through it now.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: dwayne welder]
#2566445
10/19/18 01:20 PM
10/19/18 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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master
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Chicago, IL
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Just a little friendly advice, Nick. Remember, this is a free message board, and nobody is entitled to getting responses, yet you're getting a lot of great advice in your posts. You're asking a ten part question and basically expecting to get all the info you want, worded in the way you want it. You've already had probably 5 of the most knowledgeable Mopar engine builders in the country respond to your questions, and each has told you you won't get 550 hp with that small cam (regardless of stroker or 440), but best shot of getting anywhere close to that number with that cam, will be with good heads and a stroker. They have also offered up proven combinations that will for sure get you to that number and beyond, both with a 440 or a stroker, but it will require a more aggressive cam and with that, there may be compromises to what you consider being streetable. Unfortunately, thats it. There is no magic small cam out there. If 550/600 is what is most important (as noted in the title), its very easy to map out a combo that will get you there, just be open to cam choice and budget.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: polyspheric]
#2566446
10/19/18 01:20 PM
10/19/18 01:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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What's more important: That the advice is good, or that you understand what took them years to learn?
People who spent their time helping you are beginning to notice that when they answer your question YOU ASK ANOTHER QUESTION. It is more important to understand advice. That's why I ask another question. Im not asking for someone to tell me exactly what to do, and for me to do it without knowing what is even happening. I want to understand why, and have suggestions.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: dwayne welder]
#2566447
10/19/18 01:23 PM
10/19/18 01:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
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NC
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Just wondering what the weight of your car will be with you in it thanks? With me in it it should be around 3800-3900, if the weight of 70 charger 440's I read is correct.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: TonyS451]
#2566449
10/19/18 01:26 PM
10/19/18 01:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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Just a little friendly advice, Nick. Remember, this is a free message board, and nobody is entitled to getting responses, yet you're getting a lot of great advice in your posts. You're asking a ten part question and basically expecting to get all the info you want, worded in the way you want it. You've already had probably 5 of the most knowledgeable Mopar engine builders in the country respond to your questions, and each has told you you won't get 550 hp with that small cam (regardless of stroker or 440), but best shot of getting anywhere close to that number with that cam, will be with good heads and a stroker. They have also offered up proven combinations that will for sure get you to that number and beyond, both with a 440 or a stroker, but it will require a more aggressive cam and with that, there may be compromises to what you consider being streetable. Unfortunately, thats it. There is no magic small cam out there. If 550/600 is what is most important (as noted in the title), its very easy to map out a combo that will get you there, just be open to cam choice and budget. I understand I wont get an answer to every question in the way I want. Im hoping one guy could help me understand one thing, and another can help with something else. And i also understand I can't get there with that cam. Again, Thats why I asked someone to explain the idea behind cam operating RPM, because I genuinely dott understand that idea.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: CSK]
#2566455
10/19/18 01:32 PM
10/19/18 01:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
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NC
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This is my 512, same as the 440, just has a stroker crank .I have not dynoed mine, but from the MPH at the track this is pretty close for a corrected for DA # 4050lb 1750 DA 11.33@ 121.1 in full street trim. this is a street car. Whats interesting about this is that the power went down went going from stock stroke to 512. Why is this? And i may have missed it but what cam do you have?
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