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Interesting torsion bar discovery... #2566225
10/18/18 11:58 PM
10/18/18 11:58 PM
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West Plains, MO
DrCharles Offline OP
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While preparing for a "driveway alignment" recently so I can drive it to the shop with a rack, I made an interesting discovery. My '72 Dart, which I had purchased as a rolling shell, has the proper .92 torsion bars for the big-block... but they’re both for the same side of the car! No wonder one height adjustment screw was set so far different from the other. shock

Can I run it like that, or do I need to get the complementary (892/893) bars? The car does sit level. work

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2566237
10/19/18 12:13 AM
10/19/18 12:13 AM
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They should be the same spring rate, I don't see any other side effects other than the adjustment itself may be limited on the range. Curious what others thing as well.


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2566241
10/19/18 12:18 AM
10/19/18 12:18 AM
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DrCharles Offline OP
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I just found this 2002 article by Andy F. and it says not to shruggy
http://arengineering.com/tech/torsion-bar-tango/

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2566269
10/19/18 01:06 AM
10/19/18 01:06 AM
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Jim_Lusk Offline
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Big block bars are .890". Are you sure you don't have a part number that ends in 892? If so, those are 340 bars (small block handling package).

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: Jim_Lusk] #2566276
10/19/18 01:19 AM
10/19/18 01:19 AM
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The A body .920" bars are MP bars, not OE. I don't have mine in front of me, but I don't believe they are side-> side offset. If they are the .920 bars they work nice on the street. It's not hard to install them incorrectly-DAMHIK, I'd personally get it right.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2566353
10/19/18 09:57 AM
10/19/18 09:57 AM
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DrCharles Offline OP
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Thanks Jim, you are right. They are both 892, and they are definitely offset differently.

It's not hard to correct, just expensive (as usual with our Mopars!) Just want to know if I can run it that way until the budget allows for a new pair.

Edited to add: I mean the 892's have an offset, obviously they're not different from each other whistling

Last edited by DrCharles; 10/19/18 08:46 PM.
Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2566760
10/20/18 01:35 AM
10/20/18 01:35 AM
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I know that some advise against it but I have used torsion bars in both directions and have not had a single problem. I suspect that the larger the bar, the lesser the chance that anything could hurt it.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2566792
10/20/18 02:55 AM
10/20/18 02:55 AM
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You should be fine until you can change them.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2566800
10/20/18 03:09 AM
10/20/18 03:09 AM
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You are twisting one bar against the preset and the other with the preset. It might not matter on a thicker bar but you could snap a thinner bar by installing it on the wrong side.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: AndyF] #2566873
10/20/18 11:41 AM
10/20/18 11:41 AM
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i always thought that after a certain size, both bars were the same part number ? shruggy i don't know ?
beer

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: moparx] #2566978
10/20/18 04:48 PM
10/20/18 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted By moparx
i always thought that after a certain size, both bars were the same part number ? shruggy i don't know ?
beer


That is true but it happens at a bigger size than 0.920 which is what the OP has.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: AndyF] #2567041
10/20/18 08:21 PM
10/20/18 08:21 PM
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Jim_Lusk Offline
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By moparx
i always thought that after a certain size, both bars were the same part number ? shruggy i don't know ?
beer


That is true but it happens at a bigger size than 0.920 which is what the OP has.


OP has .870" bars.

Not likely to snap one unless it's damaged already.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2567079
10/20/18 09:51 PM
10/20/18 09:51 PM
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Ah I see. He said he had 0.920 bars but he was incorrect. He just has OEM bars which should be offset half a flat opposite of the twist direction. He might not break a 0.87 bar but he isn't doing it any favors.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2567323
10/21/18 03:07 PM
10/21/18 03:07 PM
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DrCharles Offline OP
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Thanks for the update, everyone.
If I do buy a new pair, what would you recommend? .92 or even larger? I know 1.03 are available but those seem awfully stiff work

Mostly street, occasional strip. Forget the 90/10 shocks, I think those would be really weird to drive on the street.

I'm not planning to go autocrossing, and soon will be installing homemade (2x3 box tubing) welded frame connectors. The big-block A-body is already nose heavy and I eliminated the back seat which probably makes the weight distribution slightly worse.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2567525
10/21/18 11:10 PM
10/21/18 11:10 PM
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People that are concerned that a 1 inch torsion bar will be too stiff have never driven or been in a car that had them.
My 70 Charger has 1.15 bars and rides about as firm as our 2015 Challenger R/T. The torsion bars and leaf springs need to be complimented by the right shocks though. For many years, I had 1 inch T bars and KYB shocks. Now, The car actually rides better and has more control now with bigger T bars and Bilstein shocks.
A 383 or 440 A-body needs more spring rate than a 318-340 car. Mopar had soft spring rates back then. Bigger torsion bars are just a part of bringing the ride and handling quality up to modern standards.

Last edited by Frankenduster; 10/21/18 11:11 PM.
Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2567531
10/21/18 11:16 PM
10/21/18 11:16 PM
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DrCharles Offline OP
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Thanks smile
Firm Feel makes a 1 inch bar... PST has 1.03" for an attractive price, but it is not clocked (front and rear hex are not offset) and many people have said their A-body's ride height is too low even with the adjusters all the way in work

The B-body has a longer bar than an A-body, so I'm not sure exactly what a 1.15" bar would translate to for my car.

As with everything else street/strip, it'll be a compromise. I was thinking about .92 bars because I do want some weight transfer on launch. I wonder how much a 1.00 bar would hurt 60' times?

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2567572
10/22/18 12:15 AM
10/22/18 12:15 AM
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My son's '67 Barracuda has 1.14" bars and had KYBs with 235-60-15 tires all around. It also had a iron headed 383 with a four speed. I don't think the ride was as hard as my 2004 BMW 330Ci convertible with sport suspension and low profile 18's. I don't find either ride unacceptable...

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2567651
10/22/18 02:25 AM
10/22/18 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted By DrCharles
Thanks smile


The B-body has a longer bar than an A-body, so I'm not sure exactly what a 1.15" bar would translate to for my car.



Well, the B body LCA is actually about 1/2" shorter than the A-body cars so the leverage is slightly less.
An A-body with a 37" bar at 1.0" may not be much different than a B-body with the 41" bar.

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: Kern Dog] #2567655
10/22/18 02:35 AM
10/22/18 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted By Frankenduster
Originally Posted By DrCharles
Thanks smile


The B-body has a longer bar than an A-body, so I'm not sure exactly what a 1.15" bar would translate to for my car.



Well, the B body LCA is actually about 1/2" shorter than the A-body cars so the leverage is slightly less.
An A-body with a 37" bar at 1.0" may not be much different than a B-body with the 41" bar.


The B body bar will have about 10% more twist in the torsion bar for the same diameter, material property, and torque.

phi = 32*L*T/(G*pi*D^4)

phi: angle of twist
L: Length of bar
T: Applied Torque
pi: 3.14...
G: Shear Modulus of Rigidity
D: Diameter of Bar

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/torsion-shafts-d_947.html

Re: Interesting torsion bar discovery... [Re: DrCharles] #2567658
10/22/18 02:38 AM
10/22/18 02:38 AM
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My 2 cents. Stiffer bars are the way to go, you have to make sure you have a good quality shock that go with them. My '68 Dart is 3500 lbs w/o me and with a full tank of gas. I have 1.18" T-bars and Fox Adjustable shocks. It drives like a modern car. I want a 1.24" bar.

As for left bars or right bars... idk anything about that...

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