Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2508860
06/15/18 01:01 PM
06/15/18 01:01 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,806 Wichita
GY3
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,806
Wichita
|
The ootb stealth vs RPM vs ported vs ootb TF 240 on a pretty hot street 505 type build would be an interesting and fun dyno thrash. Yes, yes it would! Could you get right on that for us? Eddys and Stealths are the same head internally as the same CNC program is used on both, correct? It would be interesting to see CNC Stealth/Eddy vs. TF 240 as the flow numbers I've seen look very similar. Granted, flow is never the whole story..
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: GY3]
#2508873
06/15/18 01:22 PM
06/15/18 01:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
|
The ootb stealth vs RPM vs ported vs ootb TF 240 on a pretty hot street 505 type build would be an interesting and fun dyno thrash. Yes, yes it would! Could you get right on that for us? Eddys and Stealths are the same head internally as the same CNC program is used on both, correct? It would be interesting to see CNC Stealth/Eddy vs. TF 240 as the flow numbers I've seen look very similar. Granted, flow is never the whole story.. Agreed that would be awesome, Dwayne...ahem Are Indy EZs not even in this conversation?
2 kids and a dog
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: TonyS451]
#2508899
06/15/18 02:04 PM
06/15/18 02:04 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
If I did the test(which isn’t likely), the stealths and rpms would only get mildly ported. The cnc stealths cost the same as the TF 240’s, so for that price which head to buy is a no brainer(to me). To buy some rpms and have them cnc’d, it’s even more expensive than the TF heads..... so again, a no brainer.
Power wise, I think a prepped EZ would be in the hunt, but they would be even more expensive.
For me the question I’d be looking to have answered is...... for “x” amount of additional dollars spent over the cost of ootb Stealths or RPM’s, or even when updating the heads with some mild porting, vs the ootb TF240’s..... how much extra power do you get for your $$?
I’d have it where all the heads had the same chamber volume to eliminate that variable, and build the long block with the intention of making 600-625hp with the mildly reworked RPM heads, then see how the other heads compare at that power level.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: TonyS451]
#2508928
06/15/18 02:50 PM
06/15/18 02:50 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
|
[quote=Cab_Burge] Just head swap and no other changes? Both sets of those heads had 84.0 CC so no other changes on that swap, it had 9.25 to 1 compression ratio The next change I did was to swap the crankshaft from the 4.250 stroke to 4.300 stroke to raise the pistons up so I got 10.3 to 1 compression the next winter Every time I swapped parts on that motor the car got quicker and faster, lots of fun
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2508964
06/15/18 03:38 PM
06/15/18 03:38 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
|
If I did the test(which isn’t likely), the stealths and rpms would only get mildly ported. The cnc stealths cost the same as the TF 240’s, so for that price which head to buy is a no brainer(to me). To buy some rpms and have them cnc’d, it’s even more expensive than the TF heads..... so again, a no brainer.
Power wise, I think a prepped EZ would be in the hunt, but they would be even more expensive.
For me the question I’d be looking to have answered is...... for “x” amount of additional dollars spent over the cost of ootb Stealths or RPM’s, or even when updating the heads with some mild porting, vs the ootb TF240’s..... how much extra power do you get for your $$?
I’d have it where all the heads had the same chamber volume to eliminate that variable, and build the long block with the intention of making 600-625hp with the mildly reworked RPM heads, then see how the other heads compare at that power level. Exactly the info I would love to see. I'll wait for your results before firing up the credit card!
2 kids and a dog
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2508966
06/15/18 03:40 PM
06/15/18 03:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
|
[quote=Cab_Burge] Just head swap and no other changes? Both sets of those heads had 84.0 CC so no other changes on that swap, it had 9.25 to 1 compression ratio The next change I did was to swap the crankshaft from the 4.250 stroke to 4.300 stroke to raise the pistons up so I got 10.3 to 1 compression the next winter Every time I swapped parts on that motor the car got quicker and faster, lots of fun It's fun making changes and seeing the improvements at the track!
2 kids and a dog
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: TonyS451]
#2508995
06/15/18 04:54 PM
06/15/18 04:54 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
If I did the test(which isn’t likely), the stealths and rpms would only get mildly ported. The cnc stealths cost the same as the TF 240’s, so for that price which head to buy is a no brainer(to me). To buy some rpms and have them cnc’d, it’s even more expensive than the TF heads..... so again, a no brainer.
Power wise, I think a prepped EZ would be in the hunt, but they would be even more expensive.
For me the question I’d be looking to have answered is...... for “x” amount of additional dollars spent over the cost of ootb Stealths or RPM’s, or even when updating the heads with some mild porting, vs the ootb TF240’s..... how much extra power do you get for your $$?
I’d have it where all the heads had the same chamber volume to eliminate that variable, and build the long block with the intention of making 600-625hp with the mildly reworked RPM heads, then see how the other heads compare at that power level. Exactly the info I would love to see. I'll wait for your results before firing up the credit card! If you’re going to wait for those results to come from me, your credit card is plenty safe.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: krautrock]
#2509088
06/15/18 08:27 PM
06/15/18 08:27 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,490 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,490
Sydney,Australia
|
While we are on the subject of the Trickflow heads...
The softest springs in the Trickflow heads are probably good for all Hydraulic cams?
Are they OK for any mild Solid lifter cams or would the best thing to do is the mid level springs?
That might be something the OP wants to look since he can get either spring package in those heads for basically the same price. I would go mid level Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2509091
06/15/18 08:33 PM
06/15/18 08:33 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,490 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,490
Sydney,Australia
|
I would hate to see you dump 1000.00 more into a set of Stealth heads having them ported and then crack like another member recently posted. The Stealths have their place for many and can easily flow 300 cfm but and I’ll leave it at but. yes that was a bummer BUT these heads were great for a number of years on 2 motors . They were the best bang for buck at the time . The TF now kills them , unless you want stock look Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: tex013]
#2509102
06/15/18 09:29 PM
06/15/18 09:29 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,806 Wichita
GY3
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,806
Wichita
|
I would hate to see you dump 1000.00 more into a set of Stealth heads having them ported and then crack like another member recently posted. The Stealths have their place for many and can easily flow 300 cfm but and I’ll leave it at but. yes that was a bummer BUT these heads were great for a number of years on 2 motors . They were the best bang for buck at the time . The TF now kills them , unless you want stock look Tex 3 years, 4700 miles and zero issues with Stealths. Would probably purchase Trickflows today, though... Flying under the radar is cool, though.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: AndyF]
#2509133
06/15/18 10:18 PM
06/15/18 10:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
|
I haven't done a back to back test with Stealth or RPM heads vs. the Trick Flow heads but I've built a few engines with each. The Trick Flow heads make more power that OOTB Edelbrock heads that is for sure. I'd say around 50 hp more with a street cam and up to 100 hp more with a race cam. Which makes sense when you look at the flow charts and use the old 2 hp per cfm rule.
My pump gas 470 makes 700 hp with the 240 heads. If I put OOTB Edelbrock heads on there I'm sure it would drop it down into the low 600 range. I've tested enough 600 hp Edelbrock engines to know about where they end up on the dyno.
For Tony's engine I'd predict about 50 hp increase with the TF heads with a modest performance cam. I like the Mopar .528 solid in an engine like that or something similar. Mild enough to drive on the street without beating you to death but has just enough area under the curve to pull hard to 6000 rpm and make 550 or 600 hp. Thanks Andy. It seems like starting from scratch, the tf240's are the way to go, hands down. If you need rockers, pushrods and a head capable of 700+ hp. I'm sure it would not make great sense for me to shell out 3 grand to gain 50 hp. If my crane Gold rockers could work and then I sell the stealths, it makes a little more sense. And I'm not totally opposed to cam change for bigger gains.
2 kids and a dog
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: TonyS451]
#2509225
06/16/18 05:15 AM
06/16/18 05:15 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
Assuming this is a heavy street car with a 3.55 gear and a wide ratio 4 speed, torque on the bottom half of each gear is going to be VERY important. That is the first thing that came to mind; which head will give you killer torque down low and still be respectable from say 5000 rpm on up. The second is, is that cam a good grind for bigger heads?
Last edited by gregsdart; 06/16/18 05:16 AM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: GY3]
#2509233
06/16/18 06:23 AM
06/16/18 06:23 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,490 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,490
Sydney,Australia
|
I would hate to see you dump 1000.00 more into a set of Stealth heads having them ported and then crack like another member recently posted. The Stealths have their place for many and can easily flow 300 cfm but and I’ll leave it at but. yes that was a bummer BUT these heads were great for a number of years on 2 motors . They were the best bang for buck at the time . The TF now kills them , unless you want stock look Tex 3 years, 4700 miles and zero issues with Stealths. Would probably purchase Trickflows today, though... Flying under the radar is cool, though. I am talking 5 years or so at 6-8000mls per year plus monthly bracket racing Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: AndyF]
#2509257
06/16/18 10:18 AM
06/16/18 10:18 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
|
The Crane golds will work on the TF heads but you will need a few longer head bolts, longer pushrods, and some longer rocker shaft hold down screws. Cam choice for a street car depends on driver preference. It all depends on how you like the cam you have now or if you can live with something a little bigger. I kept hearing you need special Harland sharps, its good to know that my golds can work. Pushrods and bolts are no biggie. Thanks Andy
2 kids and a dog
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2509278
06/16/18 11:59 AM
06/16/18 11:59 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
|
What is the cars current performance, and where do you want it to be? I think the 0.507"/0.510" lift cam is going to limit the heads flow. I think if you clean-up the stealth ports and bowl area a bit and have a multi-angle valve job done it will help the port flow better in the lower lift areas below 0.500" lift, and should not cost too much if you can do some hand porting? I would gasket match the ports and intake manifold. Not sure what manifold your using? If the performance is ok, and just looking for a bit more, I don't see the value of spending thousands of dollars to change up the combination? All very sound advice! It really makes no sense that I'm looking into new heads for a car I havnt even raced yet, and will most likely only race a handful of times. I guess I just like to have as much at my disposal as possible. That's where my judgement sometimes gets clouded! Currently I have a torker 11 intake. That's going too! I like the cam because it has very nice street manners, and it actually makes pretty good power. It's not the first time I've put something together that only made sense to me
2 kids and a dog
|
|
|
Re: BB Street heads for mild 505
[Re: TonyS451]
#2509298
06/16/18 12:38 PM
06/16/18 12:38 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203
Oregon
|
The Crane golds will work on the TF heads but you will need a few longer head bolts, longer pushrods, and some longer rocker shaft hold down screws. Cam choice for a street car depends on driver preference. It all depends on how you like the cam you have now or if you can live with something a little bigger. I kept hearing you need special Harland sharps, its good to know that my golds can work. Pushrods and bolts are no biggie. Thanks Andy The Trick Flow heads need short rocker arms. The typical HS rocker arms are too long so they made shorter ones to fit the TF heads. But Crane rockers are short to start with so they fit.
|
|
|
|
|