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Tires make a HUGE difference #2563871
10/14/18 02:45 PM
10/14/18 02:45 PM
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Irving, TX
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We all know how well drag tires hook compared to the craptastic BFGs and Cooper Cobras. However, I've been given a reminder on the differences between street tires.

My pint-sized Benz has really low profile tires. The 245/35R18 doesn't leave much sidewall cushion for the wheel. Mercedes has somewhat soft wheels. That means you're going to pop one every now and then despite having fairly nice streets.

As a matter of fact, two friends and I cracked the left rear wheel on a road trip. Instead of trying to run 400+ miles on an inflatable spare in inclement weather, we found a junkyard and bought a well used 17" wheel with a new 245/45R17 Primewell tire on it. Perfect spare! We completed the trip and I held on to it after the factory wheel was repaired.

Fast forward 9 months and I somehow managed to crack the same wheel again. It had to happen when I was returning to work after lunch Thursday. I have no clue what did it. The roads are really nice in that part of town. Regardless, after work the factory inflatable spare went on and it was swapped for the ghetto spare when I got home. The factory wheel went out for repair.

Since this car is a daily driver (and I tend to drive like a maniac when there's no traffic around) I keep a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+ on the car. They're a performance looking tire but carry a 500 treadwear rating. They are far from a performance tire but hold up well to my spirited driving style and don't wash out as easily as you might think. I'd love to keep sticky PS2s on the car but I drive 60 miles per day in all weather conditions. I'd have to take the unheard of step of running winter tires in Dallas.

Being an AMG car, the traction control system on this thing uses the rear brakes to act as a limited slip differential. Under heavy acceleration the car hooks and goes without wheel spin and without backing off the throttle. That makes for a fun little go-kart.

Now that I've got the ghetto spare on the car, we're looking at a new Primewell tire with very low miles on one side and a 4 month old 500 tread wear Pilot Sport on the other. That Primewell can't keep up with the rock-hard Michelin. It constantly squeaks and squeals where the Michelins never did. It's kinda amusing. My "stealth" hooning around without tire squeal (and additional unwanted attention) has to be softened up until I get my other wheel back.

I'll probably end up looking around for a set of the factory 17" wheels for the C230 or C32. Tires are cheaper, more readily available, and should offer an extra 1/2" of sidewall protection for the wheel.

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564116
10/14/18 10:31 PM
10/14/18 10:31 PM
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
Rhinotruck
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Doesn't sound any different than my driving style in my Ram 2500! The ONLY difference is if I crack a wheel, things are really happening badly. devil One question, why would you even consider having a wheel that would crack like that, why not buy better wheels? shruggy


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!
Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564122
10/14/18 10:38 PM
10/14/18 10:38 PM
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Irving, TX
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They are factory wheels and I get them repaired at no charge.
It has happened twice in 12,000 miles so I'm not too concerned.
If it becomes a pattern I'll drop down to 17s.

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564134
10/14/18 10:49 PM
10/14/18 10:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 24,640
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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I noticed the same when I put some basic all seasons on the WRX, it grips ok but it tells on me when I try to haul the car down hard after the high speed sweeper near work.


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2564182
10/15/18 12:03 AM
10/15/18 12:03 AM
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Irving, TX
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Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
I noticed the same when I put some basic all seasons on the WRX, it grips ok but it tells on me when I try to haul the car down hard after the high speed sweeper near work.


Sadly, I replaced an all season with another all season and that's what I got.

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564255
10/15/18 05:23 AM
10/15/18 05:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,663
the frozen wastes...
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I dont know why its so hard for people to get, it doesn't matter at all how hot your car is, or how stiff your suspension is, or how good your brakes are, or how much power you have... the ONLY thing in contact with the road... is your tires. Stock tire sizes are always way too conservative, and their models are always a compromise. You cant sell a car, even a sports car with ultra-HP tires on it, no one will pay the replacement costs (not to mention complaining about the low treadlife), and yet everyone brags about their car's performance.

Another thing no one gets, is that brands have a high range, and a low range. If i had a dollar for every time i heard 'But its got Pirellis's on it!' or 'They sold me Pirellis!', i'd actually have enough for a set ov P-Zeros. Just cause it says Pirelli, doesn't mean its a good tire. Pirelli makes a $150 tire, and they make a $1000 tire.... they are NOT the same.

Further, there are cheap brands (Cooper, Sumitomo), and there are expensive brands, and they are NOT the same. And it doesn't matter one whit that your Coopers (or whatever) are 'made by Michelin'. Its not a conspiracy. If your $150 'made by Michelin (but with cheap offshore brand name on the sidewall) was the same as Michelin's actual $500 tire, then you can bet your ass Michelin would either drop their price, or Knockoffelli would up theirs. They're not the same. I had a brand new set ov Cooper's absolute best tire on my Celica, and they were noticeably softer and weaker than two different kids ov name brand tires i pulled off. I put these brand new UHP Coopers on their and i wanted my bald 10yr old Bridgestones back. The Coopers were wider too. Night, day.

I wonder how many car accidents could have been avoided if everyone bought the biggest/best performing tires possible for their cars...

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: Pale_Roader] #2564267
10/15/18 07:37 AM
10/15/18 07:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 24,640
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
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Originally Posted By Pale_Roader

I dont know why its so hard for people to get, it doesn't matter at all how hot your car is, or how stiff your suspension is, or how good your brakes are, or how much power you have... the ONLY thing in contact with the road... is your tires. Stock tire sizes are always way too conservative, and their models are always a compromise. You cant sell a car, even a sports car with ultra-HP tires on it, no one will pay the replacement costs (not to mention complaining about the low treadlife), and yet everyone brags about their car's performance.

...

I wonder how many car accidents could have been avoided if everyone bought the biggest/best performing tires possible for their cars...



I don't this is really a surprise to most anyone on this forum, obviously there is a necessary balance between what the car is and it's intended use.

The Dunlop Maxx RTs that came on my WRX were a very nice max performance Summer tire, but they were nearly useless the last time we got decent Winter weather here in North Texas.


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564277
10/15/18 08:44 AM
10/15/18 08:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,821
USA
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360view Offline
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There is a considerable difference in rolling resistance Cr of tires as well, affecting MPG more than many assume, and affecting top speed.

Coasting down a steady grade hill several times to find 4 terminal velocities,
with both high and low Cr tire sets,
and with and without 1000 lbs of added cargo
gives you 4 equations with 3 unknown variables
Leading to more accurate aerodynamic Cd estimations.

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2564310
10/15/18 11:15 AM
10/15/18 11:15 AM
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Posts: 69,052
Middlesex County, New Jersey
DirectSubjection Offline
Tacohead. The First and Only
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Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda


The Dunlop Maxx RTs that came on my WRX were a very nice max performance Summer tire, but they were nearly useless the last time we got decent Winter weather here in North Texas.



Back in the day it was Goodyear Eagle GTs that came on a number of cars, recommendations were to change them out to something that could handle weather.

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564328
10/15/18 11:50 AM
10/15/18 11:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,705
Glen Burnie MD
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68SportFury Offline
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Glen Burnie MD
I recently put new tires on my Charger for the second time in three years.
It came with Michelin Pilots, which were great. Smooth ride, quiet ride, good all-around traction. But expensive--I had to replace one at 28k miles after I ran over a j-hook that made TWO irreparable holes right on the shoulder, and it was over $300.
Replaced them at 48k because I had another irreparable flat and you don't buy a single tire with the other three have 48k on them.
I bought Falken Ziexes because they were $300-$600/set cheaper ($650 vs. $900-$1200) than the Michelins. And that...
...was a mistake.
They were noisy and only had a 30k mile warranty.
I replaced them with Goodyear Accurate Comfortreds last month. 70k warranty and now I don't have distracting tire howl on the highway.

Last edited by 68SportFury; 10/15/18 11:51 AM.

Paul
68 Sport Fury ragtop
67 Fury III 4-dr HT
11 Charger Rallye
17 Challenger SXT Plus
Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564535
10/15/18 06:47 PM
10/15/18 06:47 PM

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crabman173
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crabman173
Unregistered
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Wife has a Miata for sat and Sun fun car--I added big sways, roll bar, few other small items for when I drive it--we have gone through several sets of tires--I have found that the car guys at TireRack are great! They can get me in a tire that meets my budget goals and exceeds my performance goals--sticky tires WORK on that little gem of a car! Good soft tires and wicked great Porterfield R4S brake pads have made it really fun to play with--BTW the Porterfields are available for almost every car made and truck--they are amazing pads and will shorten your stopping distance by a considerable amount
but anyway......I use the Michelin on my Ram--best wet tire out there
but I run sticky on my fun stuff

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564567
10/15/18 08:25 PM
10/15/18 08:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,337
Irving, TX
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Many autocrossers hate the Miata guys. They design courses so they can put the gas to the floor, steer around the track, and let off when they cross the line. Larger faster cars really struggle in that kind of garbage.


The Miata is a world of it's own. Keep lightweight wheels with sticky tires and the little turd will put a smile on your face. Just don't bother with the straight roads.

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564601
10/15/18 09:36 PM
10/15/18 09:36 PM

C
crabman173
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crabman173
Unregistered
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We find the best use of our Miata is a Sunday afternoon cruise in the boonies, flip a coin at every crossroad, take GPS to find our way back, never exceed 45 MPH and --be sure to take a quilt and a nice picnic
Best part is you may find an old Mopar in a back yard

They are crazy sensitive to wheel weight--aftermarket wheels that are not as light or lighter than stock wreck havoc on handling and manors --that has taught me a lot that I transfer to other rides

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2564638
10/15/18 11:03 PM
10/15/18 11:03 PM
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Posts: 4,663
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
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the frozen wastes...
Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Originally Posted By Pale_Roader

I dont know why its so hard for people to get, it doesn't matter at all how hot your car is, or how stiff your suspension is, or how good your brakes are, or how much power you have... the ONLY thing in contact with the road... is your tires. Stock tire sizes are always way too conservative, and their models are always a compromise. You cant sell a car, even a sports car with ultra-HP tires on it, no one will pay the replacement costs (not to mention complaining about the low treadlife), and yet everyone brags about their car's performance.

...

I wonder how many car accidents could have been avoided if everyone bought the biggest/best performing tires possible for their cars...



I don't this is really a surprise to most anyone on this forum, obviously there is a necessary balance between what the car is and it's intended use.



I would argue that it is. As just two posts SINCE yours have already illustrated. If people know it, then i dont see it. I'd wager that maybe 1% ov the drivers here have peak performing tires. Even the vast majority ov the SRT8 or modern muscle crowd are driving on seriously compromised tires.

Ov course, and this still galls me, its hard when your car is spec'd for 15" tires. Now, just because they came that way doesn't mean you cant go bigger on rims, like 17", 18" etc, but the problem is, the 15's LOOK good on our cars, and there is no arguing that. The industry just wont help us out here. They haven't made a decent performance tire in 15" for 25 years now. It sucks. So its hard to argue with a guy that wants 255/295-15' BFG's on his muscle car. At the same time, i'd wager a lot ov those 'Mopar wreck' pictures would never have been taken had there been better tires on the car.

Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564648
10/15/18 11:22 PM
10/15/18 11:22 PM
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up yours
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Supercuda Offline
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up yours
Your car is only as good as it's weakest link. You could put the world's best tire on you musclecar but with 4 wheel drum brakes you are just fooling yourself. Then there is the rubber band suspensions. We can go on and on.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Tires make a HUGE difference [Re: feets] #2564874
10/16/18 03:21 PM
10/16/18 03:21 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
I have even noticed vast difference in some of the cheaper tires as well, my 2010 V6 charger 2.7 swapped to a 3.5 had some pirreli P4s on it and I would always push it hard around the roundabouts on my way home and it didn't take too much and the tires were howling and the car would always try doing a 4 wheel drift at that point, a couple weeks ago I bought a wrecked 2010 car to donate the engine to another swap and it had some continental contacts pro or something close to that and I was suprised how they would not howl going through the roudybouts so I have been pushing it much harder through there and still no howling or drift tendancy with the same size wheels and tires. I have not found the limit yet as it seems like some point it is just going to let loos and I will slide into the curb, I can get an honest 5 or 10 MPH more before that point. Instead of drifting to the outside I now feel the car rising up and leaning a lot more but not letting go.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!




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