Changing the cam timing only changes the rpm that the engine makes peak power at thus changing the so called sweet spot a bit. It's not that important on a stock or near stock street driven vehicle and in fact is probably going to go un noticed. I degreed my race engines but only to have a reference point as I usually needed to move the cam to obtain valve to piston clearance.

If you are looking to make maximum power at a given rpm then moving the cam timing will help achieve that but it won't really produce more power, just at what rpm it makes it at.

All I can say is WOW.

It is beyond ignorant to claim the dot to dot thing is ok.

The factory did it because it was cheap and they didn't give a [censored] if the engine made the power it should.


You degree a cam every time. Or you are just [censored] yourself.

There are certainly legitimate reasons to move the cam timing such as a heavy vehicle with a tight converter or an engine that is rpm limited and/or carb or air flow restricted. In these cases you may see some power and ET improvements but in Goodys case here that is not the problem and degreeing the cam would not have done anything. It is not always necessary to degree a cam. I put engines together all day long and never degree a cam. Why you ask? Because it won't make a difference and there is no way for me to change it anyway so why bother?

For some unknown reason you THINK a cam can only be a degree or two off and that just isn't the real world. You'd know that if you ever degree enough cams. You'll quickly find they ain't as close as you'd like everyone to believe. I've seen plenty of name brand [censored] off 8 degrees and I've had reground and lesser brands be off more than that.

So again, keep posting crapola, it still makes you wrong.


Degree the cam, every single time.

My brother put together a mild 225 slant six years ago with a 4 barrel, header , ect., and the timing chain set from NAPA was 8 degrees off so ended up taking it back. They did not understand why he just didn't line the dots up and why he was being so picky over something so trivial. I'm sure they just resold it to the next guy who did just that.

This discussion is ignoring that Goody is trying to diagnose a severe engine operating malfunction; falling on its face at 4000.

In order to rule out a timing chain problem he installed a new chain, dot-to-dot, and the problem remained.

As Goody stated, statistically, this ruled out the timing chain. Do some of you not understand this??? If so, you need to enter the 21st century.

Degreeing a cam is important for many reasons. It was not necessary in order to advance (pun intended) Goody's quest for solving this engine's issue.

OMG...

Not really relevant to fixing the OP’s situation, but I’ll offer up why I degree every cam.......

In the grand scheme of the number of engines that get built, cams installed, timing sets replaced....... the number I’ve done myself since I did my first one on a 289 Ford in high school is minuscule. A tiny tiny fraction of the total number that have been done.

Yet....... even within that tiny tiny sampling of timing sets that I’ve used myself........ I’ve come across 4 sets where there was a dot on the wrong tooth.
Frankly, I’m totally shocked by that, but it is what it is.
One of those sets was a very high dollar belt drive system for a BBM.

When the top gear is off a tooth...... it’s like 14deg off...... and while the motor will still run “okay”, that’s far enough to make it not run “right”.

The first time I came across this I was degreeing a roller cam that had been run in a different motor.
When I built that motor I didn’t have cam degreeing equipment, lined up the dots and let it go.
It was always a dud down low, and just figured the cam was too big for the application.

New short block gets built with some dome pistons, 8” converter gets bought to use with new build(both to help cover up the lack of low end grunt)...... and I now have cam degreeing tools.
I’m still pretty new to it at this point, and am assuming I’m just doing something wrong as I keep coming up with the cam is retarded 14deg.
I have the bushing kit, but that doesn’t get you close to moving it 14deg.

I don’t recall what made me decide to do it, but we had an old factory Hemi timing set on the shelf, so I tried it with that.
Cam came right in.
I thought I must have just been off a tooth or something with the first set, so I reinstalled it, making extra sure it’s in dot to dot.
Cam is 14deg retarded.
Pull upper gear off, lay one gear on top of the other, line up the bolt holes...... slide the gears apart....... the dots are one tooth apart on the two gears.

I figured that would be a once in a lifetime type of thing, but since that first one in 1984, I’ve come across it 3 more times.
1- 3 bolt BB Mopar
2- 1 bolt BB Mopar
3- SBC
4- Jesel for BB Mopar

That’s why I degree every one.

I was the go to guy by my friends for degreeing in cams. I found two off by over 8 degrees and another one I won’t ever tell you how far off it was because some would call me a liar 🤥
I hope you find your issue. My 1972 (340) Duster had a factory electronic ignition box that about drove me crazy back in 1975 when I bought and raced it.

I didn't forget, in fact I mentioned it a couple times. It's the self proclaimed professionals that know more than anyone else that keep arguing. So let me just put this to rest one last time. I build import twin overhead cam engines with phasers on both camshafts. There are no bushings or kits to degree these cams, even if you could change it the computer is just going to move it where it wants it to be any way. And if I could move it beyond where it can adjust it I would get cam and crank correlation codes that will never go away. So no, it is not necessary to degree every camshaft. In fact I'm about to assemble a hybrid 4 cylinder Atkinson cycle engine. Am I going to degree the cams? Nope. Not all of us are stuck in the stone age as you seem to assume. So continue to assert your superiority if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Every engine is a compromise when it comes to the camshaft. Can gears be mismarked? Sure, can a cam be ground off? Sure, but in reality it is a very small percentage.

Goody,What if the keyway in the crankshaft was machined in the wrong place.I think you should at least verify TDC before putting the cover back on.

So....You build some NON Mopar oddball stuff, yet are somehow totally qualified to comment on the accuracy of timing sets and camshaft timing events and how degreeing a Mopar camshaft is a waste of time? Really ??????

Fast and furious engine builder. Lmao 😂
I live my life one day at a time.

From 1949 The first Road Runner Cartoon.

This whole deal here is cartoonish.

Chrysler doesn't pay to dial in the cam when replacing the timing chain or the cam. So if they don't think it's necessary that's good enough for me. I have built more engines than I can count and the only ones the dialed in the cam were high performance. Stock rebuilds don't need it. Some people scream and holler that it's necessary but I believe it's over kill for a daily driver. This is just my opinion with 50 years experience.

I was a Chrysler tech from 1975 to 2008 when the dealership lost its Dodge franchise. So yeah, I'm qualified, and infinitely more qualified than you Mr. Construction worker. I also didn't see where there was any stipulation on what engine or engines need to have the cam degreed every time. I stated there are legitimate reasons to not degree a camshaft and then was called ignorant and accused of spewing crap. I think I made my point. Chrysler also sells engines with twin overhead cams and computer controlled cam timing so, I don't see where you are going with that.

BTW helpful post.

I was genuinely interested in hearing the outcome of Goody's issue here. This thread was pretty good before people started breaking out yard sticks.

I'm still interested as well, don't know why this had to go down this worm hole.

I still think the problem is electrical, pickup coil, worn distributor, coil, plug wires, bad ground, etc.

I still want to say fuel starvation though. That's an incredibly smooth running motor even where it hits a brick wall. I wouldn't expect something faulty in the ignition to fail in such a controlled manner.

If the mechanical advance slots and pins are worn, and the combination of the mechanical, vacuum, and static timing fail to reach the maximum advance, the motor quits performing at what ever rpm level the reduced advance can obtain. Everything will work perfectly up to the point the timing can no longer advance. Total timing advance in the 20-25 degree range will limit the rpm the motor can reach, but it can run wonderfully up to that point. This would be an ignition issue.

There can also be a fuel pump that can not deliver the full amount (volume, not pressure) of fuel the motor needs, the rpm range will also be limited. It too can run wonderfully right up to the point there isn't enough fuel to build more rpm. This would be a fuel related issue.

I have also seen examples where the throttle pedal can not open the throttle to fully open (or even opens the throttle past fully open and begins to close it again by going past center). This could be caused by incorrect throttle cable adjustment, or something interfering with the pedal being pressed far enough to open the throttle to the wide open position. I've also seen the carb linkage bind and not allow the throttle to open fully. This would be a mechanical issue.

The problem does not have to be cam timing. Gene