Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2558200
10/03/18 12:34 PM
10/03/18 12:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
master
62maxwgn  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
Originally Posted By f2502011
Not trying to start an argument or anything just trying to understand what’s right. Was looking at most recent Roger Gibson catalog and it has:

“NEW! Authentic Holley 340-6 and 440-6 carb base gaskets. Authentic dark color with “REAR” stamped into gasket as originals”

Is this wrong info?? Never seen the tan ones before this is why I ask. They’ve always been dark. The service manual also shows them dark.


I still have original gaskets in original Chrysler packaging from 1972,packaged in sets of thee including air horn gaskets,never opened,same as picture I posted.

Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2558372
10/03/18 04:21 PM
10/03/18 04:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 406
California City, CA
dart440 Offline
mopar
dart440  Offline
mopar

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 406
California City, CA
As Dilbert and I previously stated, there are many things that can cause this. Need to go back over everything from square one and check everything carefully. Odds are something is binding or not hooked up properly and since we aren't there, we can't see the issue.

Turn the carbs over and look to see if the throttle blades are closed fully. If not, back out base idle screw to see if throttle plates close. Look for signs of the throttle blades rubbing in the throttle body. Push the throttle shafts side-to-side and feel for play and any binding while opening/closing the throttles.

If the throttle blades are not fully closed, you need to see what is binding (linkage, throttle plates, fast idle cam, etc.) and causing the throttle to hang open.

Then move on to check the carbs as they get installed...

Do the base gaskets show signs of rubbing anywhere? How about on the edges of the throttle bores in the intake?
It doesn't take much...

Then I would reinstall the carbs loosely and open the throttle bores to make sure they move smoothly and are centered in the bores. Tighten the mounting bolts a little at a time to specification and recheck the throttle for any binding. Repeat on the next carb. Reconnect/adjust the carb-to-carb linkage. Is the throttle return spring weak, not returning the throttle to closed position?

Reattach the throttle cable and kickdown linkage, making sure they don't hold the throttle open. Reconnect all the fuel and vacuum lines.

Check the PVC and power brake booster hoses. Maybe one got damaged during carb removal/installation. Also check to PCV valve to see if it is stuck open. Shake it, does it rattle. You're basically looking for anything that would cause a large vacuum leak. Once running, disconnect the brake booster and plug the line to see if the booster is bad.

Did you move/bump the distributor when removing/installing the carbs?

Do you still have points or has the car been updated to electronic ignition? If still points, check the dwell to ensure it has not changed. Reset as necessary. Check the mechanical advance in the distributor. Pop the cap and check to see if the mechanical advance return properly by rotating the distributor rotor and release it. The rotor should "snap back" into it's original position. Repair as needed.

Start the car.

Once warmed up:
Check the base ignition timing. Is there any vacuum going to the vacuum advance while at idle. If there is, the throttle is open too far or the hoses are connected improperly.

Turn car off.

Good luck. Keep us posted...


When you work on Spaceships for a living, how bad can a workday be?
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2558624
10/03/18 10:31 PM
10/03/18 10:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 954
Chicago
PurpleBeeper Offline
super stock
PurpleBeeper  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 954
Chicago
Yeah, dilbert is right. It's just a vacuum secondary Holley with two sets of secondaries. They do seem overwhelming to many people, but they're actually pretty simple.


70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: ThermoQuad] #2558697
10/04/18 12:40 AM
10/04/18 12:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Originally Posted By Dilbert
Every time i see a six pak post i go get the popcorn

It's not that complicated.

Please post clear - close pictures of the linkage side and the fuel side.

There are many scenarios that will cause your problem and it is probably something simple. Stop wrenching and let's look.


Here are some pics of the setup.

IMG_7218.JPGIMG_7219.JPGIMG_7220.JPGIMG_7222.JPG

1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2559069
10/04/18 09:06 PM
10/04/18 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,680
South San Francisco, Ca
70sixpkrt Offline
master
70sixpkrt  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,680
South San Francisco, Ca
Just an observation:
1- Should your choke rod be straight up instead of an angle?
2- Is your Solonoid screw all the way out and normal idle screw all the way out?
3- Normal idle screw should just be touching and then back it out 1 full turn.


[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2559084
10/04/18 09:31 PM
10/04/18 09:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,918
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
I Win
stumpy  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,918
Grand Prairie,Texas
Why is the gasket between the body and the base of the middle carb sticking out?

Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2559118
10/04/18 10:44 PM
10/04/18 10:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,680
South San Francisco, Ca
70sixpkrt Offline
master
70sixpkrt  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,680
South San Francisco, Ca
Why is the vacuum line from the T going to the choke pull off? That vacuum line is suppose to go to the center carb. I think you have them on wrong. Or is it the picture that is hiding it?

Last edited by 70sixpkRT; 10/04/18 10:50 PM.

[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: 70sixpkrt] #2559141
10/04/18 11:44 PM
10/04/18 11:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Originally Posted By 70sixpkRT
Just an observation:
1- Should your choke rod be straight up instead of an angle?
2- Is your Solonoid screw all the way out and normal idle screw all the way out?
3- Normal idle screw should just be touching and then back it out 1 full turn.


1 it is when choke is closed
2 Solenoid is not charged when it is, it rises. Screw is out so they never make contact
3 Ironically and accidentally yes it is


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: stumpy] #2559150
10/04/18 11:52 PM
10/04/18 11:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Originally Posted By stumpy
Why is the gasket between the body and the base of the middle carb sticking out?


I see what you see. Authentic Holley gaskets installed based on how they were made and how the bolt holes lined up.


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: 70sixpkrt] #2559153
10/04/18 11:57 PM
10/04/18 11:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Originally Posted By 70sixpkRT
Why is the vacuum line from the T going to the choke pull off? That vacuum line is suppose to go to the center carb. I think you have them on wrong. Or is it the picture that is hiding it?


It's not. If you look closely the vacuum line from the vac advance is ribbed. The other lines are smooth. The line going to the pull off is from the underside of the center carb. The line from the T is going to the inner port on the carb same as the ports on the outer carbs. The outer port on center carb goes to the vac advance. It's just as obscured in the factory service manual. Very hard to tell which line goes where.


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2559155
10/05/18 12:00 AM
10/05/18 12:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
At this point is there a way for me to tell whether the carb base gaskets are the reason for the issue without removing them?


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: 62maxwgn] #2559185
10/05/18 12:54 AM
10/05/18 12:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Originally Posted By 62maxwgn
Originally Posted By f2502011
Not trying to start an argument or anything just trying to understand what’s right. Was looking at most recent Roger Gibson catalog and it has:

“NEW! Authentic Holley 340-6 and 440-6 carb base gaskets. Authentic dark color with “REAR” stamped into gasket as originals”

Is this wrong info?? Never seen the tan ones before this is why I ask. They’ve always been dark. The service manual also shows them dark.


I still have original gaskets in original Chrysler packaging from 1972,packaged in sets of thee including air horn gaskets,never opened,same as picture I posted.


Did a little more research. I think the tan ones may have been for the 440 version while the darker thinner version was for the 340s.


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2559681
10/05/18 10:50 PM
10/05/18 10:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Is there a way for me to tell whether the carb base gaskets are the reason for the issue without removing the carbs?


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2559841
10/06/18 12:47 PM
10/06/18 12:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Had a little time this morning. Car seems to run great just can’t get idle down below 1500 or so. Pulled vac hose to advance at idle. No change. Maybe if I retard the initial timing??


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2559843
10/06/18 12:52 PM
10/06/18 12:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
master
62maxwgn  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
From a post above,have you done this with linkage disconnected ?

1. Turn the center carb idle screw all the way out (lowest possible idle). I assume you've already done this.

Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: 62maxwgn] #2559877
10/06/18 01:44 PM
10/06/18 01:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Originally Posted By 62maxwgn
From a post above,have you done this with linkage disconnected ?

1. Turn the center carb idle screw all the way out (lowest possible idle). I assume you've already done this.


Yes


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: f2502011] #2560267
10/07/18 10:56 AM
10/07/18 10:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466
Answering the call of the wild
T
ThermoQuad Offline
top fuel
ThermoQuad  Offline
top fuel
T

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466
Answering the call of the wild
That is some good technical support from the collective
I put the popcorn away for the moment.
Nice pics!
SuperPerformance base gaskets are the best
What happened:
The car ran normal before the center and rear carb came off.
Carbs get reinstalled and the idle is high.
Vacuum leaks usually mean poor idle

Start here
Be sure the distributor is not loose-see if it turns - if that's it stop and fix.
Warm up the engine to operating temp
Shut it off
Be sure the idle mixture screws are at least 1 turn out ccw
Disconnect the throttle cable
Remove the rods from the both outboard carbs - relax nothing is going to happen.
Be sure you leave ithe outboards in the closed position
Be sure to secure the rod from interfering with anything.
Be sure to actuate the outboard carb to be sure the throttle blades come to rest
Lock out the choke.
Turn idle adj screw CCW till it has no contact with the throttle blades

Check the float levels -Trickle out the ctr, just below on the outboards

Try starting the car by just turning the key [ btw a properly tuned car would start right up] If it does not run -it should not run - set the idle screw 1 turn in CW. It should start and run. Work backwards to putting everything in it's place.
No go over to the lift off hood playground where a decent version of the six pak tuning guide is and set the carbs up properly.

If it runs away like before: wiggle each outboard throttle blade while it's running.

Report back


Last edited by Dilbert; 10/07/18 11:11 AM.
Re: 340 six pack idles too fast after reinstallation [Re: 62maxwgn] #2560283
10/07/18 11:44 AM
10/07/18 11:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
F
f2502011 Offline OP
enthusiast
f2502011  Offline OP
enthusiast
F

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 364
US
Originally Posted By 62maxwgn
From a post above,have you done this with linkage disconnected ?

1. Turn the center carb idle screw all the way out (lowest possible idle). I assume you've already done this.


Checked for vacuum leaks all around, carb base etc., nothing. Revisited this, readjusted, and curb idle went down to where it was before. Much better.


1970 EK2 T/A 727
Page 2 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1