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T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed #2558024 10/02/18 11:35 PM 10/02/18 11:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,004 Central US grancuda OP super stock
grancuda OP super stock Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,004 Central US	Finally decided to put a stick shift OD in my ‘67 Barracuda that’s a 383/727/4.11/3000# car that I use primary as a daily driver. Been kicking it around for a while & the cost just makes it un-appealing but I just went ahead & sold my ‘72 SWB to fund the swap. Back around ‘01 I swapped a 833 for a Keisler TKO 500 5 speed in my ‘70 Barracuda & it worked out great but there are lots more choices these days & it was a stock 360. I really am shooting for a set-up to handle the drag strip & shooting for low 12’s/high 11’s. I’m really wanting to run a mechanical clutch instead of hyd. for simplicity but the T56 Magnum is only available with the hyd. set-up. What’s the experience you guys have had with banging gears in the newer transmissions vs the rebuilt A833. Any advice/tips/stuff to watch out for? 1967 Barracuda Formula S 383 1967 Chevy C10 Short Stepper 1980 Macho Power Wagon LWB 318 2021 Toyota Supra

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2558073 10/03/18 01:59 AM 10/03/18 01:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,264 New York, USA Chargerfan68 pro stock
Chargerfan68 pro stock Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,264 New York, USA	My only experience with any of the newer overdrives has been with the tko600. I say that if you are going to put slicks or even drag radials on at the track, stay away from the tko. I know there have been many others who have been/are successfully racing them in their cars, but i broke 3rd gear 3 times. 1st timw with drag radials. 2nd and 3rd times with slicks. And the 3rd time was after having Liberty faceplate the gears. Broke on the first run after that. However, i am much heavier at 3,900 lbs. I do use the tranny for street/hwy driving and absolutely love it. It is perfect for that. If you absolutely have to run that, i would think about getting an adjustable slipper clutch that you can dial in some slip to lessen the shock load on the tranny. These clutches are not really optimal for a true street car that gets driven heavily. This is just my experience for what it’s worth and in no way am i bashing the tko. I do believe it is a stout tranny and has its place. Just not on the track in my car anymore. By the way, the breakage was done with my old motor that ran 11:40s. Not my current motor Last edited by Chargerfan68; 10/03/18 02:04 AM. 1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2558120 10/03/18 09:08 AM 10/03/18 09:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524 J Jamey mopar
Jamey mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524	I’ve been researching all the options for od as well for my satellite. I’ve decided on the T-56 magnum. It can handle 700 ft lbs of torque. Yes there is fabrication involved but my car is a 318 car and I can’t keep waiting for a passon 5 speed. With your 411’s and the double OD of the T-56, I feel that’s a perfect combo.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2558211 10/03/18 12:59 PM 10/03/18 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,989 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,989 Oregon	I'm old school. I put a Doug Nash 5 speed in my car 30 years ago so I was probably one of the first guys to have a 5 speed in a Mopar. The Doug Nash whines and shifts like a tractor but it has held together all of this time. I like having the extra gear and I have no intention of ever going back to a four speed but I would prefer a more modern transmission. My next move will most likely be to a T56. I don't really need the double OD but I think the T56 is the best option on the market these days for a manual trans that will handle a lot of power. The other possible option is to look at some of the aftermarket five speeds. There are some folks who are building semi-custom boxes that have serious torque ratings.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2558228 10/03/18 01:34 PM 10/03/18 01:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,477 Minnesota Hemi_Joel master
Hemi_Joel master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,477 Minnesota	I just finished drag week with a T56 Magnum behind a 392 Hemi in my 31 Plymouth Coupe. This is my first experience with the T56 Magnum. I was holding off on reporting my opinion because I have not as of yet thoroughly evaluated it. But since the topic came up I will let you know my findings so far. With the clutch out idling in neutral and the car stopped, the transmission makes a lot of noise. The noise doesn't bother me, but it makes me wonder if something is wrong. I've heard from others on the web that they are known for being noisy under these circumstances. On the street the transmission is awesome! It shifts nice. The gear spreads are great. But if you're going to use 6th gear, you better have deep gears or a Torquey engine! I have 4.57 gears in the rear end, 30 inch tires, and at 70 miles per hour in 6th Gear the engine is turning 2200 RPM. This engine has a huge cam, and barely runs at 2000 RPM, so I never used 6th unless I was going 75 mph+. I also had trouble trying to power shift at 7000, it would hang up. If I lifted off the gas, it shifted reliably, and reasonably quick. But this could be clutch related. My soft lock clutch has an iron disc, which is heavier than an organic or Kevlar disc. Plus counter weight on the levers which can hinder high RPM release. So before I can really make a call on the power shift ability, I need to work on the clutch more. I hope this info helps. Last edited by Hemi_Joel; 10/03/18 01:39 PM. [img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img] 31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2558238 10/03/18 01:52 PM 10/03/18 01:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 873 Missouri J jwb123 super stock
jwb123 super stock J Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 873 Missouri	years ago I used to race a 70 340 dart 4-speed, and loved it. The main issue with most of the newer units is that they use a pin and rail system to shift the forks. Manual transmissions have a interlock system so you can not engage two gears at once, because severe damage can occur. The pin and rail system makes it hard to speed shift the gears. They used to modify the pins and rails to make it easier, but I could never shift them as fast as the old mopar A-833 Put a Tremec 5 speed in a while back and paid extra money to have it modified for better shifting and could not tell much difference.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2558370 10/03/18 04:20 PM 10/03/18 04:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	T56 so long as you are ok with cutting the floor pan and torsion bar crossmember. Significant sugary is required. Doesn't bother me but some guys don't want to touch an unmolested floor.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2558421 10/03/18 05:04 PM 10/03/18 05:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA Silver70 I Live Here
Silver70 I Live Here Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA	Based on the 3 options, no doubt I'd go t56. It is the most work also though as mentioned, takes some cutting. I wouldn't mind having one of Passons 5 speeds for my belvedere, but I lack the patience to wait for one. 68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert 340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z 66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2558443 10/03/18 05:26 PM 10/03/18 05:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 619 nj J JAMESDART mopar
JAMESDART mopar J Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 619 nj	I have a viper t56 in my B.B. duster for 7-8 years. It’s great. I really like having overdrive. Between that swap and when I put the 700r4 in my Jeep wagoner I found I was driving them much more. I didn’t buy a kit, a guy or 2 did the t56 on bigblockdart forum. I wanted overdrive, at the time a used t56 and QuickTime bell seemed like the cheapest possible overdrive option. The 2 overdrives seems useless to me. Maybe it works good in a modern oem efi vehicle but it doesn’t seem to be necessary with an old B.B. I’m running 3.73 with a 25.5” tire. I can go with more gear but it seems like 1st gear would be useless then. Maybe it’s me or where I live but I’m not really cruising faster than 75mph. I saw that g force modified mustang trans in one of the magazines recently, 5 speed with a 1,000hp rating that seems really interesting. Looks smaller too. I would consider that next time. Mph and speed are close to hemijoel, I have to be doing 70 to use 6th. My engine will still pull at 1500rpm but you can just feel it wants to be at 2,000 under that kind of load. If the gforce will fit with minimal floor mods it seems like a winner. I just haven’t seen anyone running one in a Mopar.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: JAMESDART] #2558462 10/03/18 05:43 PM 10/03/18 05:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,695 Bitopia J jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,695 Bitopia	I'm waiting on the buzz from the field on the GForce remade 3650 5 speed, and with its size, and $4650? down stroke. Last issue of Hot Rod had the write up. Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2559856 10/06/18 01:09 PM 10/06/18 01:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,400 Trumbauersville PA ric3xrt pro stock
ric3xrt pro stock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,400 Trumbauersville PA	I did a 394Ci G3 Hemi for a guy who has a Gforce 3650 trans in a 98 Dakota, he's hurt the 9 inch rear twice but the Gforce3650 is going strong. truck has run as fast as 10.10 @ Island and Maple grove went 9.90a truck weighs in @ 3700 race weight. the 3650 can take some punishment with the GForce set up also Pro-Force out of Lawrenceville Ga builds a respectable 3650 trans. that being said, I think the T-56 /6060 is you best bet. Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda make their own truth. Some of us are so open minded they only see their View

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: ric3xrt] #2560005 10/06/18 06:40 PM 10/06/18 06:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	I run the TKO 600 behind a warm 496 in a Challenger. It runs on the street and some road track (HSAX). I love it on the street. Driven hard on the track the 2-3 shift is a little tender. I went with the .81 OD which is a top speed gear with my setup (3.23 rear, ~25" tires, 243@.050" 108 LSA cam). The engine could eaisly carry more overdrive when cruising... double overdrive would be handy in my setup. On last freshen my engine made 687 ft lb on the dyno so I am pushing the TKO pretty hard. If I upgrade it will be a T56.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2560023 10/06/18 07:14 PM 10/06/18 07:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas	Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel I just finished drag week with a T56 Magnum behind a 392 Hemi in my 31 Plymouth Coupe. This is my first experience with the T56 Magnum. I was holding off on reporting my opinion because I have not as of yet thoroughly evaluated it. But since the topic came up I will let you know my findings so far. With the clutch out idling in neutral and the car stopped, the transmission makes a lot of noise. The noise doesn't bother me, but it makes me wonder if something is wrong. I've heard from others on the web that they are known for being noisy under these circumstances. On the street the transmission is awesome! It shifts nice. The gear spreads are great. But if you're going to use 6th gear, you better have deep gears or a Torquey engine! I have 4.57 gears in the rear end, 30 inch tires, and at 70 miles per hour in 6th Gear the engine is turning 2200 RPM. This engine has a huge cam, and barely runs at 2000 RPM, so I never used 6th unless I was going 75 mph+. I also had trouble trying to power shift at 7000, it would hang up. If I lifted off the gas, it shifted reliably, and reasonably quick. But this could be clutch related. My soft lock clutch has an iron disc, which is heavier than an organic or Kevlar disc. Plus counter weight on the levers which can hinder high RPM release. So before I can really make a call on the power shift ability, I need to work on the clutch more. I hope this info helps. For what it's worth, I have no noticeable noise at idle, but I do get a decent rattle under heavy load, which is amplified by the long pistol grip handle. I've done plenty of 6000rpm no-lift-shifts [ECU cuts spark/fuel] with no issues. 6th gear use depends on the gear set, I have the close ratio T56 with the 0.63 6th [not the 0.50] and 6th is very functional for me. 1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi 2020 RAM 1500 [img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: Silver70] #2560073 10/06/18 08:51 PM 10/06/18 08:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO DrCharles master
DrCharles master Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO	Originally Posted By Silver70 Based on the 3 options, no doubt I'd go t56. It is the most work also though as mentioned, takes some cutting. I wouldn't mind having one of Passons 5 speeds for my belvedere, but I lack the patience to wait for one. There's a thread with lots of pics on FABO by a guy who just did it. "Some cutting" is an understatement It came out great in the end, but he also included a price list. Cost about $6000 AND he did a huge amount of surgery. Meanwhile, although it may take a long time to get one, the Passon A855 is $5500 and bolts right in

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: ric3xrt] #2560103 10/06/18 09:51 PM 10/06/18 09:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,551 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,551 Rittman Ohio	I have a Richmond 5-speed I built for racing and I currently run an 833 street HEMI 4-speed for just street driving. I have built a few overdrive 18 spline boxes with Jamie Passon's overdrive gear sets and they turned out good. I think you are smart to want mechanical or external clutch operation. I would HATE to have a hydraulic release bearing fail because you need to disassemble everything to replace it. I have been inside a few Viper T56 transmissions they seem plenty strong enough but they are not known for their power shifting. I like the Richmond for the 3.27 low gear and 1-1 final drive that way you can run a 3.23 gear in the diff for good road manners at 70 MPH. Just make sure you spend some time with your fabrication the first time and make sure your driveline angles are correct. Gus 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: DrCharles] #2560113 10/06/18 10:15 PM 10/06/18 10:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas	Originally Posted By DrCharles Originally Posted By Silver70 Based on the 3 options, no doubt I'd go t56. It is the most work also though as mentioned, takes some cutting. I wouldn't mind having one of Passons 5 speeds for my belvedere, but I lack the patience to wait for one. There's a thread with lots of pics on FABO by a guy who just did it. "Some cutting" is an understatement It came out great in the end, but he also included a price list. Cost about $6000 AND he did a huge amount of surgery. Meanwhile, although it may take a long time to get one, the Passon A855 is $5500 and bolts right in Meanwhile I built my car in the amount of time some people have been on the waiting list for a Passion, and I can guarantee service parts will be around, if I ever need them. Last edited by GoodysGotaCuda; 10/06/18 10:40 PM.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: grancuda] #2560114 10/06/18 10:15 PM 10/06/18 10:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 619 nj J JAMESDART mopar
JAMESDART mopar J Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 619 nj	I haven’t really been driving my duster much, just took it on a 4 hour ride and refreshed some things I probably forgot. At 80mph I’m at 1900rpm. 6th works fine with my combo down to about 15-1600. It will still pull a good hill too. I’m running a mild 400bb with a first gen ez efi, 8.8 with 3.73s and approx 25.5” tires. Mine is a stick viper trans, i won’t say it’s silent but I can’t complain. I still think a 5 speed with a .75 is would be nice. The more radical the engine I think the less useable the double of will be. An old school engine with a big giant cam and isn’t going to work as well as a modern engine with factory efi.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2560118 10/06/18 10:21 PM 10/06/18 10:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO DrCharles master
DrCharles master Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO	Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda Meanwhile I'll built my car Were you trying to say you DID build your car, or will have built it... actually I don't care. I'll be driving mine with the A833 anyway

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: DrCharles] #2560128 10/06/18 10:40 PM 10/06/18 10:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas	Originally Posted By DrCharles Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda Meanwhile I'll built my car Were you trying to say you DID build your car, or will have built it... actually I don't care. I'll be driving mine with the A833 anyway ...did.

Re: T56 Magnum / TKO 600 / 18 spline A833 Passon OD 4 speed [Re: DrCharles] #2560143 10/06/18 10:53 PM 10/06/18 10:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA Silver70 I Live Here
Silver70 I Live Here Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA	Originally Posted By DrCharles Originally Posted By Silver70 Based on the 3 options, no doubt I'd go t56. It is the most work also though as mentioned, takes some cutting. I wouldn't mind having one of Passons 5 speeds for my belvedere, but I lack the patience to wait for one. There's a thread with lots of pics on FABO by a guy who just did it. "Some cutting" is an understatement It came out great in the end, but he also included a price list. Cost about $6000 AND he did a huge amount of surgery. Meanwhile, although it may take a long time to get one, the Passon A855 is $5500 and bolts right in I never said it takes a little cutting I already have all the parts to do the same swap into my cuda and I'm no where near 6k, maybe half that. I went with a low mileage viper t56, new quicktime bell, mcleod twin disc, billet flywheel, etc... not junk parts. My belvedere was a 4 door converted to a 2 door, last thing that would bother me is cutting out the tunnel. I'm not waiting 5 years for a transmission.... that whole thing is a mess on those 5 speeds. If you could pick up the phone, order one and have it in a week, that would change everything, but 5500 is far more than I get put a t56 in a car for.

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