bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
#2536821
08/15/18 05:16 PM
08/15/18 05:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 73 Toronto,Canada
wkeggenhoff
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OP
member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 73
Toronto,Canada
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Looking at installing a 4 link. Bolt in.
Looking at Qa1, Gerst, RMS, etc
Triangulated vs straight 4 link ? pros and cons of each ?
All seem to be in same price range.
Street car with 528 and 5spd. want a nice ride so any shock recommendations ?
Wont see any track use ?
69 dodge charger,528 Hemi,Keisler TKO 5spd, Mosier 60 rear end
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: wkeggenhoff]
#2536946
08/15/18 11:02 PM
08/15/18 11:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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ugh! Next question, why? Ever visit a Mustang forum and hear all the relentless complaining about their decades old triangulated 4 links?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#2538131
08/18/18 02:09 PM
08/18/18 02:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 200 Colorado
Bob J
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 200
Colorado
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I agree you'll probably have more bang for your buck if you spend (some of) the money on your stock suspension.
The engineers at the factory were experts at making suspensions that drove and handled nice. Just read all the magazine roadtests of the era, comparing them to GM's and Ford's offerings. Our cars may have out handled a Ford or Chevy at the time but a modern minivan will out handle it today. So upgrading is the thing to do. That being said I went with the Hotchkis TVS system as it looked like balanced system that will work together. and lots of bracing and welding of seams. If I upgrade at a later date I would look at the Magnum Force rear suspension but it is weld in. It will also give you more tire clearance.
07 Porsche C2 997.1 6spd DD and SCCA Solo II SS 68 Plymouth GTX Convert. 493cu Hotkiss Wilwood Classic air, Building for Solo II Cam 65 Chrysler 300 Convert. project 57 Desoto 2dr. Firesweep 392 Hemi,Wilwood Project with son 2003 Dodge Dakota R/T "DEAD"
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: wkeggenhoff]
#2538135
08/18/18 02:15 PM
08/18/18 02:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
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up yours
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there isn't a bolt in 4 link for our rides that will outhandle updated stock.
Or stock for that matter
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: Supercuda]
#2538179
08/18/18 04:46 PM
08/18/18 04:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 270 Mountain View, CA
68rrunner
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Posts: 270
Mountain View, CA
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there isn't a bolt in 4 link for our rides that will outhandle updated stock.
Or stock for that matter Bingo. I set up a Cuda with RMS front and Ridetech rear to the best of my abilities for a customer. The car handled well; but I let the owner take EMax (Full Hotchkis Equipped Challenger) out for a spin. He came back and said: "Wow. I could have saved a lot and time, money and effort If I had just stuck with Torsion Bars and Leafs" I'm not going to say what is wrong with the other coilover and link systems since I'm not paid to help them out; but I will say that the geometry is less than ideal in any situation where the car is not moving in a straight line. If the market would support it; a quality coil system could and would be developed; however it would not be a bolt on solution and would require several compromises to the chassis that most folks aren't willing to do with a moderate level of fabrication work. I'd do it to a Satellite or some other car but I'm not sure I'd be up for doing it to a car I cared about like my Road Runner; but I'm getting tempted on this go around and we've drafted up some really killer setups.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: RichV]
#2554233
09/24/18 09:04 PM
09/24/18 09:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
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About to go away
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The only good 4 link suspension has 3 longitudinal links and a panhard bar. In the mid 90s when I was working for Delphi Chassis, the suspension engineers did not like the four link rear suspensions that where on the last generation Caprice, these where the guys that had to make this suspension work. Sounds like you are talking about a torque arm suspension.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: moparx]
#2554419
09/25/18 11:56 AM
09/25/18 11:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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No, remember both of these joints are normally a slip design, only one is required to prevent bind. This assumes a perfect no friction slip.
A torque arm style is not in my mind what one considers when talking 3 links fwiw, but if you does not want to extension floor modifications and/or requires a back seat, its a well accepted productive design.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: wkeggenhoff]
#2554656
09/25/18 06:44 PM
09/25/18 06:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
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About to go away
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Look at the line drawing I posted, there is no slip joint for the torque arm.
You want both the pivot and the U joint to be as close to in line as possible. The point of the torque arm is to control axle wrap.
If there is a bit of movement the slip yoke in the driveshaft handles it.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: Supercuda]
#2554689
09/25/18 07:37 PM
09/25/18 07:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Look at the line drawing I posted, there is no slip joint for the torque arm.
You want both the pivot and the U joint to be as close to in line as possible. The point of the torque arm is to control axle wrap.
If there is a bit of movement the slip yoke in the driveshaft handles it.
Lot to unpack here. I guess the first clarification is a "slip" joint in this context means a joint/connection with enough play to handle some of the kinematics involved here, as there is no need for constraint of the torque in more then one axis. I am not sure that in every case both the u joint and torgue arm chassis connection need to be oriented close, as that location plays a part in deciding the desired instant center. And everyone should remember "axle wrap" also includes braking forces. It is possible to use another separate above the axle arm for braking forces only, and then decouple the torque arm discussed here in this scenario, but this is getting above my pay grade.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: wkeggenhoff]
#2554718
09/25/18 08:57 PM
09/25/18 08:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
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up yours
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“If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein
Try it without the thesaurus.
OEM torque arm suspensions, much like OEM triangulated 4 links, use large bushings for NVH. That's noise, vibration and harshness.
In a handling setup, this is the handling forum isn't it, NVH is irrelevant. You'd use delrin for the bushing to minimise unwanted movement. To further minimize unwanted movement, the u joint and the pivot need to line up.
Do some research on torque arm suspensions.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: Supercuda]
#2554760
09/25/18 10:12 PM
09/25/18 10:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
|
“If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein
Try it without the thesaurus.
OEM torque arm suspensions, much like OEM triangulated 4 links, use large bushings for NVH. That's noise, vibration and harshness.
In a handling setup, this is the handling forum isn't it, NVH is irrelevant. You'd use delrin for the bushing to minimise unwanted movement. To further minimize unwanted movement, the u joint and the pivot need to line up.
Do some research on torque arm suspensions. We disagree.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: RichV]
#2555580
09/27/18 03:25 PM
09/27/18 03:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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A three link and a torque arm are different designs. The torque arm constrains the arm to the rear end in rotation. The three link has three longitudinal links that can use sperical joints on each end. See the following link for pictures. The general layout has two lower links outboard. The single upper link can be located in the middle or on either side. http://www.chassisunlimited.com/product/link-suspension-kits/3-link-suspension-kit-e.html We agree. On a further note, the location of the upper 3rd link off center, has useful bearing on the end result handling characteristics, ie its location is not random.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: bolt in rear 4 link 69 dodge charger
[Re: TC@HP2]
#2556021
09/28/18 04:02 PM
09/28/18 04:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Interesting read, but not sure we are comparing apples to apples here, since the geometry is likely vastly different between the two set-ups, beyond just the hardware, and the 3 link might just be a better tune for this application, which also means it could be tuned for a much worse result. Also over my pay grade, but I suspect the real three link normally has a lot wider tune window then the TA set-up, if for any no other reason, then just space for adjustablity.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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