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Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2548511
09/10/18 07:24 PM
09/10/18 07:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,676
Wichita
G
GY3 Offline
master
GY3  Offline
master
G

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,676
Wichita
Jeez, what a stupid mistake!

I've seen combos that don't run like they should and people always blame the cam. I always ask if they degreed it and 9 times out of 10 they say, "I made sure and lined up the dots!". blush


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's
10.69 @ 128mph with 150hp shot of nitrous

Re: What went wrong? [Re: GY3] #2548515
09/10/18 08:03 PM
09/10/18 08:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 14,204
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 14,204
PA.
For you guys that struggle with degreeing in cams buy yourself this tool. It sure make the job a lot easier.



https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/cca-4926


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: What went wrong? [Re: RATTRAP] #2548518
09/10/18 08:35 PM
09/10/18 08:35 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Shatar4 Offline OP
super stock
Shatar4  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Originally Posted By RATTRAP
Originally Posted By Shatar4
Anyone know of one that is around the Detriot area? Called Jakes this morning and they were 3-4 weeks out.




You an try Full Throttle racing In Fraser,MI they have a chassis dyno.


Got it covered! Jake was awesome and fit me in sooner! 👍

Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2548524
09/10/18 08:56 PM
09/10/18 08:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,134
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,134
Romeo MI
Glad you got it squared away.. very nice ride
wave

Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2548572
09/10/18 11:19 PM
09/10/18 11:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,390
Shelby mi.
J
JAKE68 Offline
pro stock
JAKE68  Offline
pro stock
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,390
Shelby mi.
I got him coming in Thursday.


JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
Re: What went wrong? [Re: JAKE68] #2548603
09/11/18 12:27 AM
09/11/18 12:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32,461
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32,461
Bend,OR USA
Make sure you LET him ring its tale whistling wrench hammer


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2549718
09/13/18 06:49 PM
09/13/18 06:49 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Shatar4 Offline OP
super stock
Shatar4  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Just got home from the dyno at Jakes. First I have to say Gary at Jakes is awesome fortaking care of me. So now the numbers. For a Stroker motor that has only parts from out of the box I think it’s pretty good adding in the power train lose.
414 hp and 429 torque.

7A180E15-ADD1-481F-8C94-78666A29E432.jpeg
Last edited by Shatar4; 09/13/18 07:28 PM.
Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2549754
09/13/18 09:05 PM
09/13/18 09:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,719
the great wet north
S
Superfreak Offline
master
Superfreak  Offline
master
S

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,719
the great wet north
So about 484hp


"Too much to do and not enough time to do it"
Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2549798
09/13/18 11:43 PM
09/13/18 11:43 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 550
NC, USA
D
davenc Offline
mopar
davenc  Offline
mopar
D

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 550
NC, USA
Looks like there is more power to be had with further carb tuning. Did you get a chance to do any tuning when you had the car on the rollers?

Re: What went wrong? [Re: davenc] #2549809
09/13/18 11:58 PM
09/13/18 11:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 371
Texas
R
RustyM Offline
enthusiast
RustyM  Offline
enthusiast
R

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 371
Texas
Agree with Dave.
Was that with an air cleaner on it?

I cannot remember if this is a carb or efi?
Wondering if valve train is getting unstable at 5k and above as well.
Certainly seems really lean to me.


Last edited by RustyM; 09/14/18 12:01 AM.
Re: What went wrong? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2549853
09/14/18 04:25 AM
09/14/18 04:25 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,082
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,082
Aurora, Colorado
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
For you guys that struggle with degreeing in cams buy yourself this tool. It sure make the job a lot easier.

https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/cca-4926


That tool is nice for checking cam centerline. I have seen it mis-used trying to set/measure opening and closing events or duration. The results will be slightly off because the follower diameter of the tool is smaller (0.841" is what mine measured) than a real MOPAR lifter (0.904".)
I don't know the radius used for the rounded follower used for roller cams? If I want to measure duration or opening and closing events, I use the actual lifter the engine will be using as the roller cam lifters may have different diameter rollers.

Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2549917
09/14/18 11:53 AM
09/14/18 11:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,820
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,820
So. Burlington, Vt.
Originally Posted By Shatar4
Well after i took the motor back out and gave it to the engine builder, he found that he acidently put the timing off by one tooth. I took the heads off and the valves were kissing the pistons leaving a half moon mark on them.


So, two things that I would consider pretty much “mandatory” for a build like this obviously didn’t get done.
Cam didn’t get degreed, and valve to piston clearance not verified.

I dynoed a very mild 505 last fall that was similar, but milder.
Stage 1 rpm heads, .483 lift hyd cam, original Torker, 850vs carb, 1-7/8” headers.

I told him it would make about 600ft/lbs and 500hp.
It made 628tq/515hp.

With an RPM intake and the OP’s cam I would have been looking for another 40-50hp.

Back in about 1990, on a 500hp 440 I tested an original Torker against a Torker II.
The Torker II had noticeably better top end power than the original Torker, which resulted in a peak gain of about 15hp, but at the top of the run it was more like a 30hp difference.
The original Torker had better bottom end and made about 15ft/lbs more peak tq.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: What went wrong? [Re: RustyM] #2550046
09/14/18 06:01 PM
09/14/18 06:01 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Shatar4 Offline OP
super stock
Shatar4  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Originally Posted By RustyM
Agree with Dave.
Was that with an air cleaner on it?

I cannot remember if this is a carb or efi?
Wondering if valve train is getting unstable at 5k and above as well.
Certainly seems really lean to me.


The air cleaner was not on it. It is a 850 carb.

Re: What went wrong? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2550049
09/14/18 06:08 PM
09/14/18 06:08 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Shatar4 Offline OP
super stock
Shatar4  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Originally Posted By Shatar4
Well after i took the motor back out and gave it to the engine builder, he found that he acidently put the timing off by one tooth. I took the heads off and the valves were kissing the pistons leaving a half moon mark on them.


So, two things that I would consider pretty much “mandatory” for a build like this obviously didn’t get done.
Cam didn’t get degreed, and valve to piston clearance not verified.

I dynoed a very mild 505 last fall that was similar, but milder.
Stage 1 rpm heads, .483 lift hyd cam, original Torker, 850vs carb, 1-7/8” headers.

I told him it would make about 600ft/lbs and 500hp.
It made 628tq/515hp.

With an RPM intake and the OP’s cam I would have been looking for another 40-50hp.

Back in about 1990, on a 500hp 440 I tested an original Torker against a Torker II.
The Torker II had noticeably better top end power than the original Torker, which resulted in a peak gain of about 15hp, but at the top of the run it was more like a 30hp difference.
The original Torker had better bottom end and made about 15ft/lbs more peak tq.

So do you think if I change the intake to a Edelbrock RPM I would gain some?

Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2550057
09/14/18 06:35 PM
09/14/18 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,820
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,820
So. Burlington, Vt.
“Some”?
Sure...... but mostly in the lower part of the curve is what I’d expect.

Peak hp would likely be within 10.

Way more work involved, but I’d expect better results out of some head porting instead.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: What went wrong? [Re: Shatar4] #2550142
09/14/18 11:34 PM
09/14/18 11:34 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 550
NC, USA
D
davenc Offline
mopar
davenc  Offline
mopar
D

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 550
NC, USA
Originally Posted By Shatar4

So do you think if I change the intake to a Edelbrock RPM I would gain some?


If the dyno operator has confidence in the AFR values posted in that dyno chart, you should be able to pick up some decent power jetting up on the carb. It looks pretty lean on those runs.

The timing might also be more optimized once the AFR was richer.

Last edited by davenc; 09/14/18 11:34 PM.
Re: What went wrong? [Re: davenc] #2550529
09/16/18 03:40 AM
09/16/18 03:40 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Shatar4 Offline OP
super stock
Shatar4  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,030
Howell, Mi
Originally Posted By davenc
Originally Posted By Shatar4

So do you think if I change the intake to a Edelbrock RPM I would gain some?


If the dyno operator has confidence in the AFR values posted in that dyno chart, you should be able to pick up some decent power jetting up on the carb. It looks pretty lean on those runs.

The timing might also be more optimized once the AFR was richer.

The jets at 80 primary 88 secondary.

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