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A body chassis #2547367
09/07/18 08:56 PM
09/07/18 08:56 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline OP
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I'd have to see it go together to know how well it works but here it is: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/schwartz-performance-introduces-g-machine-chassis-108-mopar-bodies/

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547373
09/07/18 09:14 PM
09/07/18 09:14 PM
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Supercuda Offline
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Cut and paste from the brochure.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547379
09/07/18 09:30 PM
09/07/18 09:30 PM
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Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
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When you consider how well the Red Brick and the Green Brick perform, I consider this completely unnecessary...

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547400
09/07/18 10:29 PM
09/07/18 10:29 PM
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Supercuda Offline
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But, but, our uni-bodies are inherently weak.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547405
09/07/18 10:44 PM
09/07/18 10:44 PM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
pro stock
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I'm all for any company willing to shove money into making our cars better!

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547408
09/07/18 11:00 PM
09/07/18 11:00 PM
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Supercuda Offline
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The key is better


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547460
09/08/18 02:09 AM
09/08/18 02:09 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Frankenduster Offline
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No.

Re: A body chassis [Re: Jim_Lusk] #2547474
09/08/18 03:01 AM
09/08/18 03:01 AM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Jim_Lusk
When you consider how well the Red Brick and the Green Brick perform, I consider this completely unnecessary...


Red Brick performed great on the track but wasn't much fun to drive around town. That is the problem with the classic Mopar suspension. You can make them work at the track but you give up a lot. To have a car do both you have to start with a clean sheet of paper. Not sure this chassis does that, but it might. I don't have any plans to test it out though. Looks like a huge project for even a professional shop to tackle. Lots of stuff has to be cut away to fit on there and then everything needs to be lined up and welded back together. I'd never finish a project like that.

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547573
09/08/18 01:06 PM
09/08/18 01:06 PM
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Los Osos, Ca
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CKessel Offline
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One way to salvage a car where the floor and rails are toast. Definitely not a slam dunk project.


Carl Kessel
Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547680
09/08/18 08:30 PM
09/08/18 08:30 PM
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Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By Jim_Lusk
When you consider how well the Red Brick and the Green Brick perform, I consider this completely unnecessary...


Red Brick performed great on the track but wasn't much fun to drive around town. That is the problem with the classic Mopar suspension. You can make them work at the track but you give up a lot. To have a car do both you have to start with a clean sheet of paper. Not sure this chassis does that, but it might. I don't have any plans to test it out though. Looks like a huge project for even a professional shop to tackle. Lots of stuff has to be cut away to fit on there and then everything needs to be lined up and welded back together. I'd never finish a project like that.


Larry seems to enjoy driving it...or at least did last time I talked to him. Lee didn't like it much on the street. I don't know how stiff it is, but I know my son's Barracuda was stiff (1.14" torsion bars with KYB shocks) and I did not find it objectionable even on California back roads...

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547805
09/09/18 03:06 AM
09/09/18 03:06 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Frankenduster Offline
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Is the A-Body torsion bar spring rate the same as B-body cars? What I mean is, even though an A-body uses the shorter bar, it also uses a slightly longer lower control arm. Does this in any way mean that a 1.14 T bar in both cars would mean approximately the same ride and spring rate?
I ask because I have 1.15 Bergman Auto Craft torsion bars in my 70 Charger and the car rides great. It is firm but feels solid and capable without feeling like an unloaded dump truck.

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547815
09/09/18 06:47 AM
09/09/18 06:47 AM
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The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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IMO for something to drive good on the street with low speeds AND drive good at a track at high speeds, I think you need digital suspension control that adapts to the car's speed.

Daily street use and full-out racing are 2 different worlds.
Usually a 'suitable' compromise is chosen for the average Joe.

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547854
09/09/18 11:19 AM
09/09/18 11:19 AM
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Spring rate is spring rate, it is independent of vehicle. In a coil spring it would be pounds per inch of compression, a torsion bar would be pounds per degree of deflection. So a B body torsion bar and an A body torsion bar with the same spring rate deflect the same.

What you are thinking of is wheel rate. Wheel rate is the rate of deflection at the wheel. Being that our torsion bar suspensions use the inner pivot point as the spring attaching point the ratio, regardless of arm length, is 1. In a coil over type suspension where the spring attached somewhere between the inner pivot and the outer pivot the ratio is less and is a function of those points and the angle of the spring.

https://www.hypercoils.com/spring-rate-calculator/


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547901
09/09/18 12:49 PM
09/09/18 12:49 PM
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central texas
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krautrock Offline
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do a google image search for "chrysler torsion bar" and some charts will show up that list wheel rate. A-body is stiffer than B-body given the same diameter...

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547912
09/09/18 01:32 PM
09/09/18 01:32 PM
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Supercuda Offline
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Didn't bother to read a thing did we?

In a Chrysler longitudinal torsion bar suspension the spring rate and the wheel rate are IDENTICAL.

Spring rate is spring rate regardless of diameter. The reason the A body bars are stiffer for a given diameter, which no one asked about, is that they are shorter. So if you want an A body T bar to match the spring rate of a B body T bar the diameter will be smaller, but the spring rate and the wheel rates will be IDENTICAL.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547962
09/09/18 03:08 PM
09/09/18 03:08 PM
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Granite Bay CA
Frankenduster Offline
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But....The A-body uses a slightly longer lower control arm which must have some effect on the wheel rate.

Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2547970
09/09/18 03:26 PM
09/09/18 03:26 PM
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central IL
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myduster360 Offline
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Its the closed minded fool to think 1960s tech can't ever be improved upon.

XV had plenty of testing and documentation from their 4 post rig showing that "stock" unibody needs plenty of help to bring it up modern standards in terms of rigidity. Torque boxes, Frame connectors, Radiator core support, Fender Braces, Cowl braces ect all proven effective time and again.

Even brand new, our cars had beefed chassis with torque boxes and double Rocker rails. DC from DAY 1 stressed the need for Frame connectors. Even DC Kit cars had you stiffen up the stock Rocker rail even though it had a Full cage.

Considering ~$10K base price isn't far off from what it costs for a pile of parts of the currently available, individual "Front" and "Rear" Suspension kits.

Not sure to what extent this means "This full chassis is designed to bolt under your Mopar uni-body with minimum alterations to the floor while increasing the rigidity and strength"

Last edited by myduster360; 09/09/18 03:28 PM.

1972 Swinger 3.6L Pentastar
Diablo CMR tuner
Re: A body chassis [Re: AndyF] #2548040
09/09/18 07:13 PM
09/09/18 07:13 PM
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The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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This is not 'improving', this is just "Grind off every suspension part from your Mopar, discard it like a cheap hooker and replace it with our generic stuff we use on every other chassis regardless of car-brand its used on".

Going by the one, single image in the article, and unless it's some generic image, I would think you need to fab your own body mounts as I see hardly any points on the chassis where the body could mount to.

EDIT:
No sign of the A-body chassis on their site, but the E-body section has a number of actual photos of the frame.

http://www.schwartzperformance.com/mopar-e-body-cuda-challenger-chassis-full-frame/

Don't see many mount-points between frame and chassis. The frame/chassis alone doesn't appear all that sturdy, so the chassis would need the unibody and vv to both become stiff together, as mentioned on their webpage. But I'm not sure if just 'bolting' both together will accomplish that.

Re: A body chassis [Re: Supercuda] #2548078
09/09/18 08:37 PM
09/09/18 08:37 PM
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Posts: 1,881
central texas
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krautrock Offline
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Originally Posted By Supercuda
Didn't bother to read a thing did we?

In a Chrysler longitudinal torsion bar suspension the spring rate and the wheel rate are IDENTICAL.

Spring rate is spring rate regardless of diameter. The reason the A body bars are stiffer for a given diameter, which no one asked about, is that they are shorter. So if you want an A body T bar to match the spring rate of a B body T bar the diameter will be smaller, but the spring rate and the wheel rates will be IDENTICAL.



settle down there keyboard cowboy.
i was just posting for this other guy to check out...

Originally Posted By Frankenduster
Does this in any way mean that a 1.14 T bar in both cars would mean approximately the same ride and spring rate?


anyway, just GIS for the chrysler torsion bar charts and see what the spring rates (wheel rate) are...

Last edited by krautrock; 09/09/18 08:39 PM.
Re: A body chassis [Re: myduster360] #2548170
09/09/18 11:49 PM
09/09/18 11:49 PM
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Trumussia
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"Its the closed minded fool to think 1960s tech can't ever be improved upon."

I don't see any fools here yet, but a couple of things, I suspect a lot of the OEM engineering today is not directed at building a stiffer chassis for 9/10ths handling as much as it is building crash test needed crush zones, and i bet the crush zones take a lot higher priority, KV was trying to sell a product, marketing was a factor in their presented result., I fail to see how bolting on a ladder frame style chassis will offer much bang for buck in more then a single axis stiffness, if nothing else, the increase in chassis stiffness/loads will be from carrying a lot less weight in your wallet.

This member is not wasting time with bolt on stuff.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post2532180

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