Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532708
08/07/18 11:02 AM
08/07/18 11:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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20 years ago I took many drives (75 miles) to the track with my 68 Charger with 12-1 a .280/660 roller, dominator, 5200 stall and 4.30. In the slow lane of course.. Now I understand why the guys at the track said I was nuts.
It's all about how much discomfort you can tolerate vs how important it is getting the very best timeslip. I wouldn't have thought twice about your cam in question back in the day. Now the 50 year old me wants a little more comfort and I'm ok with not being the fastest.
That said, my last ride has a 520 with Indy ez and a 252/587 hyd roller and I thought that was very streetable with 4200 stall and 3.55 gears. It dynoed at 650 hp. I wouldn't have gone on a road trip with it, but had no trouble driving 20 miles to cruise night. Never raced it unfortunately.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: CSK]
#2532712
08/07/18 11:10 AM
08/07/18 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 118 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
MrMayhem
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My hydr roller is smooth @ 1800 rpm in OD & converter locked up,512ci,255,258 @ .050 cam, I am on the VERY edge for my set up, has taken a lot of tuning to get it happy in all driving conditions. Your build sounds a lot like what I am looking for... I'll give hughes another call to see which direction they take me the next time I speak with them.
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532715
08/07/18 11:16 AM
08/07/18 11:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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In the end, it’s just a cam we’re talking about.
If you want to try the one you posted specs for...... try it.
After you’ve had some time with it, you’ll decide if it was the right choice or not. At that point you’ll have a better feel for what you want. You have to start somewhere.
As for the “10 second” thing......... that’s really way more about the car than the motor........ unless you have about 200 hp more than you theoretically need....... and plenty of traction.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2532775
08/07/18 01:20 PM
08/07/18 01:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,806 Wichita
GY3
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As mentioned before, a light shot of horsepower on demand (N2O) is, in my opinion, the best way to achieve your goal at the track and still meet the streetability goals you have put out there.
600 streetable, mild mannered HP is pretty easy to build, reliable and not overly expensive. With most fully equipped, ~3,500lbs. all steel cars, this is mid to low 11's.
The NX kit I bought was under $500 for everything and knocks about 1 second and 10mph off with very little effort.
I wanted a NO COMPROMISE street car and, for the most part, that's what I built. The rollcage and spool are exceptions to that.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532791
08/07/18 01:59 PM
08/07/18 01:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Nitrous is one way, but a blower doesnt need a bottle refill, and is easier on parts. Once you drive a car that is supercharged, it will make a believer out of you. If it were my ride, i would consider a procharger. It will allow a much smaller cam, less rear gear, and could cruise at very low rpm. 1400? I don't know if there is a compatible fuel injection system that will fit your needs, but that would be great with the supercharger, since we are spending your money,,,
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532795
08/07/18 02:07 PM
08/07/18 02:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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To support Gregs feelings........
I prepped some rpm heads and supplied a hyd roller cam for a 454bbc/procharger build.
A very basic straightforward build.
Dynoed it with the belt and carb hat removed, along with swapping the blow thru carb for a normal one..... about 535hp. Install belt, carb hat and blow thru carb........ 775hp.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2532836
08/07/18 03:51 PM
08/07/18 03:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,806 Wichita
GY3
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master
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Yep, any way you slice it, a poweradder (of some sort) is going to make his goals more attainable and the car much easier on parts and happier going down the road.
Personally, I want an A-body 'Cuda with turbo 6.1 in the worst way for a street car...
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532856
08/07/18 04:30 PM
08/07/18 04:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 118 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
MrMayhem
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The thought of N20 crossed my mind... I still have the mentality of it being the easy way out to go fast I guess. I've always been an all motor type guy. I know the build noted above with the big cam seems a bit dicey for a street car. I'm complexed by my racing must go fast kid in me while the adult realized I don't really need that to enjoy the car. Especially if I plan on building an all out full effort A-body after this project.
Part of this is driven by my buddy with his 71 502 Chevelle that runs high 10's with AC/PB and all the goodies. That thing runs great on the street. They guy talks a lot of mopar smack and I kinda want to put him in his place.
Ridiculous I know...
Yes I want the car to be a high effort street car, yes I will be required to drive 50 miles or better on the freeway at 75 mph and yes it will be driven in slow moving traffic of the city... I want my unicorn, lol.
Last edited by MrMayhem; 08/07/18 04:31 PM.
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532859
08/07/18 04:36 PM
08/07/18 04:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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Stock B&S + Procharger makes all that high $, high RPM valve gear superfluous. The pumping loss (driving the blower) is really small at low RPM (unlike a Roots) and the milder low overlap cam has much better low RPM/high vacuum manners. Extra feature: makes the complex, how-close-are-they-to-equal-length, what-RPM-do-they-tune-at headers expensive overkill since the blower flushes the chamber on every rotation without any exhaust signal. Just size the primaries for the power, not the inches.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532873
08/07/18 04:54 PM
08/07/18 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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The combo outlined in the opening post is straight forward enough.
Just build it like that and tweak as necessary.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532913
08/07/18 05:52 PM
08/07/18 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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The 260/264 really isn’t that big. It just seems kinda big to me for around town A/C use and low rpm OD cruising....... but maybe not.
Idle quality with rollers can be a lot milder than the duration @.050 would indicate.
I sold a 264/268 solid roller to a guy with an RPM headed 500. He had been running a XE294 hyd cam(250/256)..... and was worried about the drivability with the roller.
It was a actually way better with the roller than the big hyd cam.
I used to run a 259/264-108 roller in my 9.7:1 448...... low speed manners were milder than a MP 509 cam.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: GY3]
#2532918
08/07/18 06:02 PM
08/07/18 06:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,786 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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As mentioned before, a light shot of horsepower on demand (N2O) is, in my opinion, the best way to achieve your goal at the track and still meet the streetability goals you have put out there.
600 streetable, mild mannered HP is pretty easy to build, reliable and not overly expensive. With most fully equipped, ~3,500lbs. all steel cars, this is mid to low 11's.
The NX kit I bought was under $500 for everything and knocks about 1 second and 10mph off with very little effort.
I wanted a NO COMPROMISE street car and, for the most part, that's what I built. The rollcage and spool are exceptions to that. A true 600 horsepower in a 3500 pound car will be WAY faster than low to mid 11’s. My 3280 pound 360 doesnt even make 500 and ran 11.20’s in good air when i still had a 727 in it.
Last edited by B3422W5; 08/07/18 06:03 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car Best so far, 10.32 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: B3422W5]
#2532935
08/07/18 06:55 PM
08/07/18 06:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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[/quote]
A true 600 horsepower in a 3500 pound car will be WAY faster than low to mid 11’s. My 3280 pound 360 doesnt even make 500 and ran 11.20’s in good air when i still had a 727 in it. [/quote]
600/3500 = 128MPH which if the chassis is good enough is a 10.49..somewhat better than low 11's........add a small 125 shot to that and its 9.7>9.9's@135+...there is a lot to say for building it mild and adding a small shot to it. I say do what you gotta -do the easiest way. I wanted to run a 9 back in 1990 before I retired from Racing, only got to a 10.7 na, added a small shot, job done.
Last edited by rb446; 08/07/18 06:58 PM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: MrMayhem]
#2532946
08/07/18 07:16 PM
08/07/18 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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There are plenty of 600hp 3500-3700lb street cars that won’t run a “ten”.
Wrong gears, wrong suspension, wrong tires, wrong converter, poor driving technique, etc.
And that doesn’t even take into account it may not have a good tune, or have adequate fuel delivery, etc.
Making the 600-700hp is the easy part. The combo outlined in the opening post will easily do it.
10’s....... also relatively easy....... if no compromises to the gears, converter, tires, fuel system, etc, are involved.
Each “streetability” compromise is a bit of time added to the slip.
If every combo ran exactly what the owner thought it should, there wouldn’t be any of those “help me get my car to ET better” threads(and I wouldn’t get as many phone calls and emails along those same lines).
As an example.....GY3...... 511, cnc ported heads, roller cam...... should be pretty darn close to 600hp. Car should be in that 3500-3700lb range....... not running 10’s.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2532960
08/07/18 07:40 PM
08/07/18 07:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,490 Sydney,Australia
tex013
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top fuel
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Posts: 2,490
Sydney,Australia
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There are plenty of 600hp 3500-3700lb street cars that won’t run a “ten”.
Wrong gears, wrong suspension, wrong tires, wrong converter, poor driving technique, etc.
And that doesn’t even take into account it may not have a good tune, or have adequate fuel delivery, etc.
Making the 600-700hp is the easy part. The combo outlined in the opening post will easily do it.
10’s....... also relatively easy....... if no compromises to the gears, converter, tires, fuel system, etc, are involved.
Each “streetability” compromise is a bit of time added to the slip.
If every combo ran exactly what the owner thought it should, there wouldn’t be any of those “help me get my car to ET better” threads(and I wouldn’t get as many phone calls and emails along those same lines).
As an example.....GY3...... 511, cnc ported heads, roller cam...... should be pretty darn close to 600hp. Car should be in that 3500-3700lb range....... not running 10’s. this about sums it up . choose a goal not a HP , then accept what it needs to get there . my pump gas 440 ran to 10.80s @ 3700lbs with a .520 nett lift solid flat tappet . Daily driver . Drove interstate multiple times . Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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