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Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: polyspheric] #2633255
03/16/19 10:08 AM
03/16/19 10:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 76
MASSACHUSETTS
Chip Offline
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Chip  Offline
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MASSACHUSETTS
I bought the SFI fluid damper below at 440source and it has been tested...

http://store.440source.com/Fluid-damper-SFI-Certified-Black-New/productinfo/200-1024/

Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: Chip] #2633276
03/16/19 10:56 AM
03/16/19 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807
North Dakota
Azzkikrcuda Offline
top fuel
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North Dakota
Most tractors I work on only rev to around 3000rpms, so you are a little higher then that. Most people learn the hard way if you are building a performance engine don't cheap out on parts. I have seen enough failures on offshore parts to either stick with good oem parts or pony up for the name brand stuff.


The only Carbs I care about are under the hood!
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: Chip] #2633304
03/16/19 12:03 PM
03/16/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted by Chip
I bought the SFI fluid damper below at 440source and it has been tested...

http://store.440source.com/Fluid-damper-SFI-Certified-Black-New/productinfo/200-1024/

I'm 99% sure that's the model another board member had fail during dyno testing.

Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: GY3] #2633311
03/16/19 12:09 PM
03/16/19 12:09 PM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted by GY3
Originally Posted by EV2Bird
I think people expectations of the longevity of a non race balance r has always been a bit off.

Its good you had no problems but you race your car a good bit, id pop the $400 or so for the race balancer and never look back.

You have a nice car, take good care of it.


This engine is and always has been limited to 6400 rpm. It is a tractor engine.

I may race my car but it is far from being a race engine.

What damper is on the engine now? I suspect 6400 is way past what Chrysler would have expected for an OEM 440; Gen 2 426 Hemis had a different damper than an RB wedge.

Last edited by BradH; 03/16/19 12:11 PM.
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: Chip] #2633360
03/16/19 01:44 PM
03/16/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric Offline
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polyspheric  Offline
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New York
it has been tested
Yes, it didn't blow up.
A solid hub would also pass.

Again: except for accepting the manufacturer's word, there is NO WAY to tell if the damper is tuned to work at the specific RPM points ("harmonic orders") that are sensitive in your engine. A typical V8 has several, at least one occurs below any RPM you would use constantly, and some way above your RPM limit. A V8 crank with 400 Hz frequency (way above L6, below V6) has orders at 24,000 RPM, 12,000, 8,000, 6,000, 4,800, 4,000, 3,429, 3,000, 2,667, 2,400, 2,182, etc. but not all are equally destructive.
There is a reason why all car manufacturers make a different damper for each engine. They also make some for different applications for the same engine: the Ford 289 4 bbl. 220 hp damper will not work on a 271 hp engine since the bigger cam needs damping above the 220's damper range.
What affects damper design? It's a long list and has nothing to do with power, compression ratio, rod geo, or balance factor.
The factors that determine the natural frequency of vibration include crankshaft length (number of cylinders in a row, number of main bearings), weight, and stiffness (rod and main journal diameters, stroke length, journal overlap). The Young’s Modulus of Elasticity (stiffness) of most steel material (forged, billet) is very similar so 4130, 4340, and mild steel are almost alike - but cast iron is different.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: GY3] #2633473
03/16/19 09:11 PM
03/16/19 09:11 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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@#$%&*! Offline
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
That's why they have SFI dampers for racing. It's not a good place to save money, imho.

Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: @#$%&*!] #2634184
03/18/19 08:08 PM
03/18/19 08:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,664
Wichita
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GY3 Offline OP
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Wichita
An update to this: 440Source did offer to replace the balancer with a new one today. As I'm not excited about having the same issues and admittedly making more power than originally intended, I politely declined.

I do appreciate them getting back with me.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: GY3] #2634208
03/18/19 09:00 PM
03/18/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
Couldnt send it back for “store credit”?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: fast68plymouth] #2634248
03/18/19 10:59 PM
03/18/19 10:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
Good - they are more likely to give you credit than a refund.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: GY3] #2634309
03/19/19 08:22 AM
03/19/19 08:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
So many of these aftermarket dampers fail after such little use it's ridiculous.
I've run stock old dampers on a few engines I raced and never had a problem.
The only one I had fail was a BHJ damper...it replaced a stock damper b/c I was worried about it, lol. BHJ repaired it, but refused to discuss the issue.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2634310
03/19/19 08:35 AM
03/19/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,664
Wichita
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GY3 Offline OP
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Wichita
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
So many of these aftermarket dampers fail after such little use it's ridiculous.
I've run stock old dampers on a few engines I raced and never had a problem.
The only one I had fail was a BHJ damper...it replaced a stock damper b/c I was worried about it, lol. BHJ repaired it, but refused to discuss the issue.


The car crosses the 1/4 mile stripe at under 5200 and is rev limited to 6400. Last Fall as a stopgap solution and so I could move the car in and out of the garage over Winter, I installed an OE balancer. It is most likely going to stay for a while.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: GY3] #2634311
03/19/19 08:42 AM
03/19/19 08:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
I'd leave it on there too. It's 100% better than the cheap dampers out there...as you know.
ATI, Fluidamper, or Innovators West is all I'd use if going w/ a new one. Never used an IW piece, but heard they're good.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2634361
03/19/19 11:18 AM
03/19/19 11:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD Offline
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Metro Detroit
I was scrolling through this to see what you ended up replacing it with, as I sometimes worry about my stock one...

Looks like I'll stick with the 50 year old unit... up


Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...

71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: OUTLAWD] #2634362
03/19/19 11:21 AM
03/19/19 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,151
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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PA.
We can thank General Motors for this problem. They were the ones sending them into the grandstands hitting people


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: pittsburghracer] #2634375
03/19/19 11:45 AM
03/19/19 11:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,163
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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Park Forest, IL
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
We can thank General Motors for this problem. They were the ones sending them into the grandstands hitting people


Buddy of mine blew one off a 289 Ford at Assumption. It made a hole in the track you could drop a golf ball in to, and a piece went through the wall of the concession stand and hit a lady in the butt.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: slantzilla] #2634417
03/19/19 01:19 PM
03/19/19 01:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
Bob Glidden had a cast dampener on one of his Ford motors in 1980 explode on the starting line while testing and almost ruin the complete front end on his Fairmount Pro Stocker at the 1980 NHRA World Finals at Orange County raceway after he lost the sponsorship with Mopar when they went bankrupt the first time in 1980 whiney.
That is the main reason NHRA started requiring SFI dampeners after that shruggy
I've had the outer ring come off of one of my old 1957 392 hemi motors while driving it, luckily the lower pulley and belts kept it on luck

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/19/19 01:22 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2634547
03/19/19 07:45 PM
03/19/19 07:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
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B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
So many of these aftermarket dampers fail after such little use it's ridiculous.
I've run stock old dampers on a few engines I raced and never had a problem.
The only one I had fail was a BHJ damper...it replaced a stock damper b/c I was worried about it, lol. BHJ repaired it, but refused to discuss the issue.

What about the BHJ failed?

Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: BradH] #2634636
03/19/19 10:50 PM
03/19/19 10:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
The aluminum hub ones I've seen fail crack one of the webs or fingers scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: Cab_Burge] #2634659
03/20/19 12:45 AM
03/20/19 12:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 604
TN
1DGEMAN Offline
mopar
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Posts: 604
TN
I was working the starting line at Jackson County Sports Park at a NHRA points race. My buddy Warren was standing next to me. A Chevy Camaro modified car was doing a burnout and Warren fell over and the camaro went silent. The idiot had drilled holes in a stock dampner for a crank trigger. It exploded part of it was embedded in the concrete starting line and part of it took a chunk out of Warren's prosthetic leg. We were lucky that day.

I used to run the BHJ aluminum hub dampner on my stocker engines still have one in the shop. Never a problem.


Real Men shift for themselves
Re: An off balance thread.. [Re: GY3] #2634660
03/20/19 12:48 AM
03/20/19 12:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 604
TN
1DGEMAN Offline
mopar
1DGEMAN  Offline
mopar

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Posts: 604
TN
Originally Posted by GY3
An update to this: 440Source did offer to replace the balancer with a new one today. As I'm not excited about having the same issues and admittedly making more power than originally intended, I politely declined.

I do appreciate them getting back with me.


So why did you raise such a fuss in public?


Real Men shift for themselves
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