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Guess the dyno numbers #2481155
04/11/18 04:17 PM
04/11/18 04:17 PM
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Willie68coronet Offline OP
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Heading to R&R performance at the end of this week.

Here is the combo:
-'77 440 block .030 overbore, square decked with ARP studded mains.
-Factory forged crank, King XP bearings, Scat H beams rods, forged Mahle powerpak pistons with 1.5,1.5,3 mm ring pack at -.005 deck for .047 quench with Felpro gaskets.
-Compression ratio comes out to 10.31:1.
-ATI two ring damper for stock location pulleys.
-Milodon 7 quart kick out low profile pan and windage tray, 1/2" pickup, melling HV pump. Driven 15-50 break in oil.

-Dwayne Porter spec'd nitrided custom comp solid flat tappet cam with 292/301 advertised, 260/266@.050, 586/585, 108 lsa. Degree'd in at 104 center line with Rollmaster timing set.
-Howard's EDM lifters
-1.65:1 ratio Mancini Harland Sharp rocker arms that will open the valve to .625/.624" after lash. Manton 3/8" diameter, .095 wall, stage 3 pushrods.

The heads are Indy EZ's that have been ported to max wedge and cleaned up and a "mild pocket porting" them and fixed the guide issues and recut the valve seats.
After that they went Wheeler racing engines flow bench and here are the flow numbers:
Lift - Intake flow - Exhaust flow
.100 - 72.3 - 66.5
.200 - 144.3 -126.1
.300 - 209.2 -165.3
.400 - 261.6 -201.4
.500 - 310.2 -235.7
.600 - 347.8 -264.6
.700 - 340.3 -279.3
.800 - 349.9 -281
Not sure how their bench compares to others but that's the data I got.

-The heads are topped with the standard 2.19-1.81 valves and have Comp 928 dual springs, comp tool steel 10 degree retainers. Installed height of 1.95 with 150 lbs of seated spring load. Open spring load of 370@ .620 lift.

-On top of all this is a out of the box Mopar M1 "337" single plane manifold with a Quickfuel 950 4150 carb. I have two spacers to try. One plastic summit 4 hole cheapie 1" and a wood 3/4" open spacer I got free.

-Firecore mechanical tall distributor and plug wires

This is my first dyno and first build that isn't just stock. I'm mainly hoping it lives after break in and spotting leaks and fixing that while out of the car is easy. After that initial worry of possible destruction leaves my brain then power acquisition comes to mind lol hoping for 425+ hemi power.

Curious to see what everyone thinks. Guesses on power, torque and rpm peaks?

Last edited by willie_68coronet; 03/23/20 09:16 AM. Reason: Deleted a cylinder head shop that ripped me off on the valve job

'68 Coronet 500 w/ Indy EZ-1 headed 446, 727 trans, 9" rear
First day at the track with SUV street tires and no traction: 1.688 60', 7.24 @ 101.79 in the 1/8 mile

Great customer service from: DominicThumper Carbs, B3 racing engines, Porter Racing Engines, A-1 torque converter's, Quick Performance, Racer Brown Cams, R&R Performance, Manton pushrods

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2481168
04/11/18 04:41 PM
04/11/18 04:41 PM
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Alberta
Wookie316 Offline
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That should go 630-640 with those heads and that cam. It should peak around 6800.
Torque will be in the 580 range at 4500.


1971 Plum Crazy Super Bee. 572 World Aluminum block with a Cope 727 & Dana 4.10 out back. 9.88 @ 138 with a 1.35 60 NA. Dialed back to 10.0’s. 4000 lbs with me in it.
Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2481178
04/11/18 05:07 PM
04/11/18 05:07 PM
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AndyF Offline
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Pump gas 440 with EZ heads and a flat tappet cam should be around 600 hp with dyno headers and electric water pump.

In the car you might have 450 to 500 rwhp if you check it on a chassis dyno.

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: AndyF] #2481186
04/11/18 05:27 PM
04/11/18 05:27 PM
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pittsburghracer Offline
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To bad you didn’t send that intake out with the heads to get some port work done. Sure nice to have a matched combo.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2481187
04/11/18 05:31 PM
04/11/18 05:31 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Id say 600

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: pittsburghracer] #2481188
04/11/18 05:33 PM
04/11/18 05:33 PM
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N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline
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Guessing about 630 to 650.
How high are you looking to turn it?


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: pittsburghracer] #2481194
04/11/18 05:56 PM
04/11/18 05:56 PM
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Virginia Beach, VA
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Old School Offline
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Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
To bad you didn’t send that intake out with the heads to get some port work done. Sure nice to have a matched combo.


Yeah that Mopar 337 manifold does not line up with Max wedge ports it takes quite a bit of work to get there.....


68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Old School] #2481212
04/11/18 06:47 PM
04/11/18 06:47 PM
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Willie68coronet Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Old School
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
To bad you didn’t send that intake out with the heads to get some port work done. Sure nice to have a matched combo.


Yeah that Mopar 337 manifold does not line up with Max wedge ports it takes quite a bit of work to get there.....


I was tempted for a port match. I got the intake last year after getting the heads done. I figured the intake is easy enough to take off at a later time and do it. I was being cheap lol. Getting it running is more important than getting everything out of it right away i guess. It's only going to be dyno numbers and a baseline to improve upon...eventually


'68 Coronet 500 w/ Indy EZ-1 headed 446, 727 trans, 9" rear
First day at the track with SUV street tires and no traction: 1.688 60', 7.24 @ 101.79 in the 1/8 mile

Great customer service from: DominicThumper Carbs, B3 racing engines, Porter Racing Engines, A-1 torque converter's, Quick Performance, Racer Brown Cams, R&R Performance, Manton pushrods

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2481243
04/11/18 08:19 PM
04/11/18 08:19 PM
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madscientist Offline
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Left some power on the table with only ~.565 lift. I would have liked to see something with .600 net but that always isn't possible.

I'm saying 615-620.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2481261
04/11/18 08:47 PM
04/11/18 08:47 PM
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Cab_Burge Offline
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That short stroke will limit the torque more than the HP, what brand engine dyno is it going on?
I'm going to guess conservative based on the stock stroke and say between 550 and 600 HP and more torque than HP work
I hope it does better than that, good luck up
Anyone want to place some bets on results? stirthepot devil

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/12/18 01:39 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Cab_Burge] #2481269
04/11/18 09:04 PM
04/11/18 09:04 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Not sure where the HP will end up, but the moderate CR and big ports are gonna hurt the torque with only 440-ish cubes.

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2481270
04/11/18 09:04 PM
04/11/18 09:04 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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613 HP


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: madscientist] #2481281
04/11/18 09:32 PM
04/11/18 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Left some power on the table with only ~.565 lift. I would have liked to see something with .600 net but that always isn't possible.

I'm saying 615-620.


If you read what he posted, lift is a good bit more using the 1.65 rockers he has


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: B3422W5] #2481337
04/11/18 11:24 PM
04/11/18 11:24 PM
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By B3422W5
Originally Posted By madscientist
Left some power on the table with only ~.565 lift. I would have liked to see something with .600 net but that always isn't possible.

I'm saying 615-620.


If you read what he posted, lift is a good bit more using the 1.65 rockers he has





Well Bon of a sitch, I missed that entire line in the thread. Lift look much better. Thanks for pointing that out.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2481378
04/12/18 12:30 AM
04/12/18 12:30 AM
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R&Rs dyno is pretty accurate, he did my 408 and a 455 Poncho I built, and guys run about what they should, based on his numbers.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2481542
04/12/18 11:34 AM
04/12/18 11:34 AM
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Dyno numbers can vary a bunch, so I'll quantify my guess by saying its what I'd expect to see out of it if I ran it here.

I've only tested one motor with a 337 on it, and it was a completely different beast than what you built....... So I really don't have a handle on how that will behave in the upper rpm's.

If it had something like a 440-2 on it, I'd expect it to get into valvetrain instability before the power curve reached its natural peak(where it would peak without valvetrain instability issues).

I'm basing that on your 928 springs being installed at 1.950.
Those lobes, 1.65 rockers, that spring set up at 1.950........ I'm thinking something will start to show unhappiness by 6500-ish, and I think the combo would likely peak a bit closer to 7k if everything is good.

I'm not suggesting you change anything......At this point, just run it and see what happens.


All that being said, I'd be looking for 625-640hp or so...... And 550-570tq with my 2-2 1/8 x 4 dyno headers.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2482425
04/14/18 03:03 AM
04/14/18 03:03 AM
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Willie68coronet Offline OP
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Today was dyno day on friday the 13th. The dyno was a super flow 902. Ignition was a Msd digital 6al with blaster 3 coil. The dyno headers we used were hooker old 2" super comps intended for straight spark plugs.

After priming and adjusting the Milodon oil pump pressure the 446 fired to life in instant. We broke the cam in on the outer springs only and then puttzed around adding the inner's and made some pulls.

The first test pull to 5600 with no spacer showed 587.3 at 5600 and climbing with 552.8 lbs ft torque at 5300. Then Ron took it up 6300 rpm for a pull and got: 620hp there and 557.8 torque at 5300.

Ron grabbed a "cloverleaf" spacer out of his collection and decided to go up to 6500. Torque was 558.6 at 5400 but the torque dropped 17 at 4000 rpm vs no spacer. The peak was 631.2 then going down to 630.1 at 6500. The measured cfm went down from 803 at 6400 to 802 at 6500. Dwayne Porter nailed it!

This pull was the pull that I had to contain my self from yelling oh #$%$%$ (keeping it clean). Horspower dropped down to 573.8 at 6500 and torque went to 509.9 at 5700. Ron immediately shut it down and we worried and went in to look at take off the valve covers and see what was up. He grabbed the distributor and it turned. We chuckled and realized timing was retarded lol. Reset it to 34 and all was well with the next pull.

The best was 633.9 horspower and 6400 rpm with torque coming in at 562.9 at 5400 with a 1" four hole spacer and the torque at 4000 4 higher than no spacer. So the 4 hole spacer wins.

Dwayne was spot on about the rpm at valvetrain instability showing at 6500. The dyno showed the measured air in the bell over the carb went down one cfm from 6400 so that set our redline. With that said I'm happy that the engine lived and made power and was a awesome experience. It's not perfect but it'll be a step up or 2 from the stock 383 in the car. What installed height and spring pressures would you have gone with Dwayne? Shimming might be in my future


446 dyno graph.jpg446 dyno sheet.jpg446 on the dyno.jpg

'68 Coronet 500 w/ Indy EZ-1 headed 446, 727 trans, 9" rear
First day at the track with SUV street tires and no traction: 1.688 60', 7.24 @ 101.79 in the 1/8 mile

Great customer service from: DominicThumper Carbs, B3 racing engines, Porter Racing Engines, A-1 torque converter's, Quick Performance, Racer Brown Cams, R&R Performance, Manton pushrods

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: BradH] #2482426
04/14/18 03:07 AM
04/14/18 03:07 AM
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Willie68coronet Offline OP
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Originally Posted By BradH
Not sure where the HP will end up, but the moderate CR and big ports are gonna hurt the torque with only 440-ish cubes.


Yeah I'm sure you're right. I bought the heads in 2009. The options were limited to EZ's, SR's, Eddy rpm's or stealths for simplicity sakes.

I was 26 years old when I bought them direct from indy at mopars in the park. The mistake was buying them from Indy. Needed too much work to justify. Now I woulda went with Trick Flow.


'68 Coronet 500 w/ Indy EZ-1 headed 446, 727 trans, 9" rear
First day at the track with SUV street tires and no traction: 1.688 60', 7.24 @ 101.79 in the 1/8 mile

Great customer service from: DominicThumper Carbs, B3 racing engines, Porter Racing Engines, A-1 torque converter's, Quick Performance, Racer Brown Cams, R&R Performance, Manton pushrods

Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2482446
04/14/18 08:31 AM
04/14/18 08:31 AM
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Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Nice motor, being a 440 RB it might be a perfect application for a mildly ported (lower plenum particularly) Indy 440-2D Dual plane.

The 337 Comes with a port outlet that is (maybe deliberately) 1/2 way between a full gasket 906 and a true Max wedge. I have a Larry Smith full race ported 337 on my 517 and I'm very happy with it. so your 337 will likely be down on torque on a 440 below around 4200-4500 on and application like yours, I'd try a 440-2d to see if you like it better. Peak to peak may be close to the same but I'll bet the torque will be stronger out of the basement.

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/14/18 08:32 AM.

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Re: Guess the dyno numbers [Re: Willie68coronet] #2482491
04/14/18 11:29 AM
04/14/18 11:29 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Cool deal. Nothing broke and you learned some important stuff, too.

Was the QF 950 out of the box? The air-fuel #s look pretty stable, although trending toward the richer side.

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