Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Another Trickflow head question #2460530
03/03/18 04:06 PM
03/03/18 04:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,121
tucson az
F
frank Offline OP
top fuel
frank  Offline OP
top fuel
F

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,121
tucson az
Talking to my engine builder/machinist about which head he prefers for my build (512 on a 400 block, hyd roller, emphasis on torque) and he told me to get the bare castings. He said that he has been seeing not quality springs and valves on the assembled heads. He said he has seen this on the Ford heads as well as the Mopar. Seeing how an assembled head is only a $100 more than a bare head this may be true. My question is assembled or bare? The head I would get assembled is the 17802 head. Thanks

Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank] #2460534
03/03/18 04:14 PM
03/03/18 04:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,737
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,737
So. Burlington, Vt.
Look at what TF warranties when you buy the assembled heads.

I've had 4 sets of the TF 240's here, and frankly I thought the parts seemed perfectly fine.

The only caveat for me is, for many solid flat tappet cams, I'm not in love with either of their spring choices.
One is a little lighter than I'd prefer, the other too stiff.

No way would I bother with bare castings.
That's just a way to add hundreds of dollars to the heads.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank] #2460545
03/03/18 05:00 PM
03/03/18 05:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,868
Pasadena, california
hosehead Offline
top fuel
hosehead  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,868
Pasadena, california
Sorry to slightly hijack, but what springs did you use for a solid cam? I just bought a .557 purple cam and am about to swap it in from a mild hydraulic. I have 240's as well.


64 440/727 Plymouth savoy
70 340/4-speed dart swinger
73 318/727 d100 shorty
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank] #2460550
03/03/18 05:19 PM
03/03/18 05:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,737
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,737
So. Burlington, Vt.
Assuming you bought the version with the "smaller" springs......
For that cam with 1.5 rockers I would just adjust the installed height to get those springs to 145-150 on the seat(around 1.80-1.82 installed height).
The rate of that spring is fine for that type of cam if the seat pressure is set properly.

IMO, the 1.550 flat tappet/hyd roller spring they use is on the stiff side for most hot street or street/strip type applications.

In my original TF240 thread I'm pretty sure I posted the numbers for that spring....... It did not match the specs on the instruction sheet that came with the heads, but I seem to think it was pretty close to what TF shows for specs on their spring page.
It's been a while....... You'd have to do a search.

Depending on how high you want to turn the motor, what rockers, etc...... Something along the lines of a Comp 928 or Isky 8005a is what I'd be looking at, but both of those install shorter that how the 1.550 springs come set up from TF, so you'll have to play with shims/retainers/locks to get where you want.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: fast68plymouth] #2460562
03/03/18 05:49 PM
03/03/18 05:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,193
CA
C
crackedback Offline
super stock
crackedback  Offline
super stock
C

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,193
CA
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Assuming you bought the version with the "smaller" springs......
For that cam with 1.5 rockers I would just adjust the installed height to get those springs to 145-150 on the seat(around 1.80-1.82 installed height).
The rate of that spring is fine for that type of cam if the seat pressure is set properly.

IMO, the 1.550 flat tappet/hyd roller spring they use is on the stiff side for most hot street or street/strip type applications.

In my original TF240 thread I'm pretty sure I posted the numbers for that spring....... It did not match the specs on the instruction sheet that came with the heads, but I seem to think it was pretty close to what TF shows for specs on their spring page.
It's been a while....... You'd have to do a search.

Depending on how high you want to turn the motor, what rockers, etc...... Something along the lines of a Comp 928 or Isky 8005a is what I'd be looking at, but both of those install shorter that how the 1.550 springs come set up from TF, so you'll have to play with shims/retainers/locks to get where you want.


Agreed, a .060 shim would bring the seat up to ~143 at 1.84 if my rusty math skills are correct. An .070 would be ~147 on seat.

Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank] #2460569
03/03/18 06:35 PM
03/03/18 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,397
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts
AndyF  Offline
Too Many Posts
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,397
Oregon
I'm running both 240 and 270 heads right out of the box on my 470 engines. 700+ hp from each engine without any issues. I have about 90 pulls on the 240 heads, 30 pulls on the 270 heads.

Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank] #2460573
03/03/18 06:40 PM
03/03/18 06:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,868
Pasadena, california
hosehead Offline
top fuel
hosehead  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,868
Pasadena, california
Thanks guys. I appreciate the info!


64 440/727 Plymouth savoy
70 340/4-speed dart swinger
73 318/727 d100 shorty
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: crackedback] #2460582
03/03/18 07:20 PM
03/03/18 07:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32,276
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 32,276
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By crackedback
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Assuming you bought the version with the "smaller" springs......
For that cam with 1.5 rockers I would just adjust the installed height to get those springs to 145-150 on the seat(around 1.80-1.82 installed height).
The rate of that spring is fine for that type of cam if the seat pressure is set properly.

IMO, the 1.550 flat tappet/hyd roller spring they use is on the stiff side for most hot street or street/strip type applications.

In my original TF240 thread I'm pretty sure I posted the numbers for that spring....... It did not match the specs on the instruction sheet that came with the heads, but I seem to think it was pretty close to what TF shows for specs on their spring page.
It's been a while....... You'd have to do a search.

Depending on how high you want to turn the motor, what rockers, etc...... Something along the lines of a Comp 928 or Isky 8005a is what I'd be looking at, but both of those install shorter that how the 1.550 springs come set up from TF, so you'll have to play with shims/retainers/locks to get where you want.


Agreed, a .060 shim would bring the seat up to ~143 at 1.84 if my rusty math skills are correct. An .070 would be ~147 on seat.




Never trust the valve spring specs tsk Always verify the actual pressures for your springs. especially on a race motor or hot street motor twocents Buy what tools you need or take the heads to a shop that has a valve spring tester to verify the pressures up
I've seen 30 lbs. different in the same set of heads installed at the same heights shruggy
I shoot for + or - 5 lbs. variance on the seats and 10 to 20 lbs. open and between .060 and .100 from coil bind on all the heads I set up up
Be thorough or don't worry about the minor details whistling grin stirthepot

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/03/18 07:23 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: AndyF] #2460614
03/03/18 09:20 PM
03/03/18 09:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,109
Between a rock & a hard place
C
cudadoug Offline
master
cudadoug  Offline
master
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,109
Between a rock & a hard place
Originally Posted By AndyF
I'm running both 240 and 270 heads right out of the box on my 470 engines. 700+ hp from each engine without any issues. I have about 90 pulls on the 240 heads, 30 pulls on the 270 heads.


With the as supplied springs??

Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: cudadoug] #2460625
03/03/18 09:56 PM
03/03/18 09:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,868
Pasadena, california
hosehead Offline
top fuel
hosehead  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,868
Pasadena, california
Originally Posted By cudadoug
Originally Posted By AndyF
I'm running both 240 and 270 heads right out of the box on my 470 engines. 700+ hp from each engine without any issues. I have about 90 pulls on the 240 heads, 30 pulls on the 270 heads.


With the as supplied springs??


That's what I was wondering......


64 440/727 Plymouth savoy
70 340/4-speed dart swinger
73 318/727 d100 shorty
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank] #2460635
03/03/18 10:32 PM
03/03/18 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,737
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,737
So. Burlington, Vt.
The as supplied roller springs are pretty nice.

They would work just fine with the cam Andy used for those tests with 1.5 or 1.55 rockers.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank] #2460641
03/03/18 10:47 PM
03/03/18 10:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,193
CA
C
crackedback Offline
super stock
crackedback  Offline
super stock
C

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,193
CA
Have any of you seen pressure variations in this rate Pac spring sets mentioned here?

These aren't monster springs on the TF 240 heads.

Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: cudadoug] #2460644
03/03/18 10:55 PM
03/03/18 10:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,397
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts
AndyF  Offline
Too Many Posts
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,397
Oregon
Originally Posted By cudadoug
Originally Posted By AndyF
I'm running both 240 and 270 heads right out of the box on my 470 engines. 700+ hp from each engine without any issues. I have about 90 pulls on the 240 heads, 30 pulls on the 270 heads.


With the as supplied springs??


Yes, I have the Trick Flow springs and retainers on my 240 heads. The 270 heads switched over to K950 springs when I put the super aggressive cam in it. The roller cam springs with the Ti retainers are high quality parts. Should be fine for most bracket type roller cams.

Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: AndyF] #2460689
03/04/18 01:07 AM
03/04/18 01:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,663
North Dakota
Azzkikrcuda Offline
top fuel
Azzkikrcuda  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,663
North Dakota
I checked the smaller 1.460" O.D. dual spring with damper (TFS-16893) and all the springs had consistent pressures but were to light for my cam without a bunch of shims. They were inline with TF's posted specs. I used Comp 930-16 springs to get 145lbs pressure on the seat.


The only Carbs I care about are under the hood!
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: Azzkikrcuda] #2462393
03/07/18 01:38 AM
03/07/18 01:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,777
Mopar Country, Mi
ccdave Offline
The Ultimate
ccdave  Offline
The Ultimate

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,777
Mopar Country, Mi
Buy the springs from PAC and the valves from who ever is your favorite manufacturer. You now know what you have up

Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: ccdave] #2462485
03/07/18 11:35 AM
03/07/18 11:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 547
USA
B
B3RE Offline
mopar
B3RE  Offline
mopar
B

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 547
USA
Originally Posted By ccdave
Buy the springs from PAC and the valves from who ever is your favorite manufacturer. You now know what you have up


The springs are PAC, and the valves are Ferrea. Buying them separately only makes the head more expensive, unless they don't fit the application to begin with. And now you know!


Mike Beachel

I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: B3RE] #2462581
03/07/18 02:39 PM
03/07/18 02:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,342
D
dogdays Offline
I Live Here
dogdays  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,342
Thanks for cutting through the guesswork and BS.

This is a typical Moparts question. It's my frustration. First you have the question based on suspicions or "I was told". Then the uneducated jump on with their own suspicions or third hand stories.
Somewhere in the middle of that the guys with real knowledge show up and try to get back to a fact-based answer. However, even after Fast and Andy and Cab and other pros answer the question, it comes back with more half-baked answers.

And, finally, what degree of smarts does one need to understand the phrase, "right out of the box"?

R.
(Grumpy Old Man)


Advertisement
Forum Statistics
Forums32
Topics193,816
Posts2,261,743
Members25,802
Most Online1,424
Jun 20th, 2018
Moparts Newest Topics
1969 Plymouth Road Runner
by tomsjack. 03/21/19 03:37 AM
Where to stay in OKC
by carcrazyguy. 03/21/19 12:09 AM
Where to find w2 replacement valves
by viperblue72. 03/20/19 11:34 PM
Shock settings, radial to bias
by justinp61. 03/20/19 10:56 PM

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1