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Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. #2458098
02/26/18 09:56 PM
02/26/18 09:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,862
New York
rarefish Offline OP
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I have a mostly original 1969 Dart GTS. It had been in storage for the past 40 years when I bought it in 2015. Back in 1969, when the car was just a few months old, the original owner crashed the rear drivers quarter panel. A body shop back then hung a new quarter panel and blended the new paint on the C-pillar and at the Dutchman panel.
Today that "repaired" paint work is mostly shot. It has been flaking off the top/back of the quarter panel near the trunk lid.
Last fall I talked to a body shop owner about re-shooting the quarter. He told me that he would paint the quarter in a base coat/clear coat urethane paint. Blending it across the driver's door, up the C-pillar and also across half of the trunk lid.

What is the best way to approach when trying to repaint a body panel on a older car that still has it's original paint? I'm thinking that they should shoot the panel with single stage enamel and blend it only at the C-pillar.
I'm not expecting a miracle here as I know matching old paint is really hard to do. I just don't think using a clear coat is the way to go when just re-shooting part of a car that still has it's original paint.

69 Dart.JPG
Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458103
02/26/18 10:00 PM
02/26/18 10:00 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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RUNCHARGER Offline
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I dunno, I would guess if the quarter gets clear coated that the whole car is going to end up getting clear coated or it will not look very good. Maybe I'm wrong.


Sheldon
Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458107
02/26/18 10:04 PM
02/26/18 10:04 PM
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Long Island, NY
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70plymA34 Offline
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you might want to consult frank badalsons paint guy (stew jackson) on this one. he is an expert with paintwork on survivor cars.


Super Commando
Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458149
02/26/18 11:13 PM
02/26/18 11:13 PM
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Florida
blewbyu Offline
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IS that winner stickers in the 1/4 window?

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: blewbyu] #2458173
02/26/18 11:44 PM
02/26/18 11:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,862
New York
rarefish Offline OP
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Originally Posted By blewbyu
IS that winner stickers in the 1/4 window?


Yes they are... They are I believe from the 1974 season. The car was parked the next year. I got it back on the road late last year for the first time since 1975. There is only 10K on the odometer.

105_4534.JPG
Last edited by rarefish; 02/26/18 11:47 PM.
Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: blewbyu] #2458177
02/26/18 11:49 PM
02/26/18 11:49 PM
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Posts: 13,207
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
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Base clear doesn't sound like it would work to me. If the texture is different it will look funny. I see cars in traffic that have had doors and fenders repainted and the difference in orange peel next to the nearest oem painted part gives it away even if the color is "close enough".

PPG Delstar acrylic enamel is likely as close as you can get to the factory paint. The color won't match so you'll have to have it tinted/adjusted for the cars age, newer paint ingredients, etc.

Seems like using the top quarter panel edge over to the Dutchman panel seam and then to the bottom of the roof would be less noticeable? Carefully back-masking on the edge of the quarter and the Dutchman seam would make for no tape lines. Where to stop at the roof is the tricky part.

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458179
02/26/18 11:51 PM
02/26/18 11:51 PM
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Michigan
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A lot of painters today won't paint anything except base coat/clear coat. I advise you to look for another painter. You are the one shelling out the money for the work, and you should have it the way YOU want, not the way the painter wants it. Or have the entire car repainted with base/clear.

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458202
02/27/18 12:21 AM
02/27/18 12:21 AM
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Mass
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Mike Mancini Offline
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PPG Delstar Acrylic enamel has been discontinued and is no longer available


Michael L. Mancini
American Muscle Car Restorations, Inc.
65 Foliage Drive
N. Kingstown, RI

Premium Quality Restoration Services for Hi-Performance & Classic Automobiles. OE Specialists.

Instrument Specialties, Inc

www.instrument-specialties.com
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Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458208
02/27/18 12:37 AM
02/27/18 12:37 AM
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Posts: 42,458
Spokane Washington
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Get a hold of Frank Badalson and ask him, he's repaired a number of survivor paint jobs, he knows some talented guys who can do it in single stage (properly). sixpackfrank@aol.com

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458221
02/27/18 01:30 AM
02/27/18 01:30 AM
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northwest USA
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NANKET Offline
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Get someone who can blend a single stage metallic part. If a painter says it can't be done it just means they never learned how to do it. Makes me laugh out loud when I hear that.

Don't paint the door and trunk lid at all.

Neat car! What engine & Trans?

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: Mike Mancini] #2458236
02/27/18 02:19 AM
02/27/18 02:19 AM
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Sacramento CA
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Morty426 Offline
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Originally Posted By Mike Mancini
PPG Delstar Acrylic enamel has been discontinued and is no longer available


Yes and it sucks

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458272
02/27/18 10:23 AM
02/27/18 10:23 AM
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western PA
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Single stage enamel can be blended weather it's a metallic paint or not. Stay far far away from anyone who says it can't and only does base clear paints. It's a lost art anymore, the paint is getting harder to find but pretty much any acrylic enamel will work, doesn't have to be PPG. DuPont, Acme, Sherwin Williams and several others make single stage acrylics. The ingredients and recipe should the same regardless of brand, just different paint/part numbers for the mix. The trick with metallics is to get the same size, style and type of metal flake and to have it lay down the same as the factory paint. Finding the right gun/nozzle may be tough, but a real painter will know what to do to make it match. I would buff the car first to get the old paint up to snuff. Best of luck, very few people will even want to attempt it but it will be well worth the effort when done correctly.

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: NANKET] #2458305
02/27/18 12:19 PM
02/27/18 12:19 PM
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New York
rarefish Offline OP
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Originally Posted By NANKET
Get someone who can blend a single stage metallic part. If a painter says it can't be done it just means they never learned how to do it. Makes me laugh out loud when I hear that.

Don't paint the door and trunk lid at all.

Neat car! What engine & Trans?


340 4-speed

The color is B7 with a B5 interior.

I'm agreeing with those who say to stay away from two stage paint. I'm wondering if I can find a shop locally that can do it right.

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458321
02/27/18 12:42 PM
02/27/18 12:42 PM
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dan9 Offline
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The base/clear guy might be the best way to go. It is not original paint on the quarter panel anyway. I don’t know when acrylic enamel became available to shops but I first saw it in the early 70’s. My guess it has lacquer on the repaired panel. From the view in the second pic it seems like they didn’t get a good match back then. It is true that acrylic enamel can be blended, they even used to make a “color blender” which just worked like the base/clear the first shop suggested. That car looks awesome and I think a good painter could duplicate the original finish very well.

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: dan9] #2458336
02/27/18 01:00 PM
02/27/18 01:00 PM
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Motor City
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It's a survivor. I would leave it alone. Even though not 100% factory. Besides, the whole Patina is the "in" thing these days.


1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 CHALLENGER R/T, 25.5 Cert, Big Inch Alum 16 plug HEMI twin turbo.
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner.
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Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458340
02/27/18 01:05 PM
02/27/18 01:05 PM
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dan9 Offline
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I would be interested to know which route you take and see the results, please let us know what the experts say.

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: dan9] #2458352
02/27/18 01:32 PM
02/27/18 01:32 PM
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You are are going to have to talk to someone who specializes in restorations not a production collision shop. I think a call to someone like Frank is the way to go for direction.

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458371
02/27/18 01:46 PM
02/27/18 01:46 PM
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Rust Belt, SW PA
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Yes it can be blended, but good luck finding a perfect match, not just color, but metal flake etc. Also anyone with a good eye will be able to see the blend area.


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Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: Silver70] #2458378
02/27/18 01:59 PM
02/27/18 01:59 PM
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Frederick , MD
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Good body shops scan the paint and use a computer to match- can do a much better job now- usually shinier though-

Re: Need painting advice for a survivor paint car. [Re: rarefish] #2458385
02/27/18 02:07 PM
02/27/18 02:07 PM
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So Near, Yet So Far
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In the 2nd photo, it looks as though there's what's called an "open blend" in the sail panel (C-pillar). It may be possible to polish that back so any further repair can avoid re-shooting the roof; if not, should be able to backtape that contour.
The flaking on the quarter could be from a lacquer primer and/or paint that began cracking and over time allowed moisture intrusion.
Repair will involve expanding that area to clean it up, but at least you have good contours for back-taping.
Check around at local paint suppliers to see if there's a painter in your area who's skilled at solving these types of problems; it also requires an enthusiasm for the task.

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