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Considering Fuel Injection for a '70 Charger #2442177
01/28/18 01:20 PM
01/28/18 01:20 PM
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OrangeProwler Offline OP
top fuel
OrangeProwler  Offline OP
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As the title of the post suggests in the future I'm considering adding fuel injection to a 70 Charger with a stock/mild '76 440 in it. I'm trying to make sure my bases are covered with parts and other things I would need to consider. Also, just looking to ensure that I'm making the right decision(s).

Anyways, so the parts I'm considering using the FiTech Injection setup atop a stock cast iron intake manifold. So, I'm just wondering if I would be okay with the throttle body atop the stock intake? For the kickdown or throttle pressure linkage, I have a BPE setup installed now with use of the stock Thermoquad but, wondering if my BPE (Bouchillion Performance) would work or do I need something different?

The reason I'm asking about those things is because I like the stock appearance with the factory dual snorkel intake. So, that leads to my next set of questions in regards to the fuel system. Let's address the fuel tank, I see that Holley has a fuel tank setup with a pump and sending unit already installed. I also, see that I can buy a tank from TanksInc and add my own fuel pump/sending unit. If I need to do my own tank I'm wondering if an aftermarket factory sending unit would be okay along with a Aeromotive Phantom Stealth Fuel System? Is that system overkill for a stockish 440? Just wondering what brand of fuel and size of hose I should use? I believe 3/8 for the main hose/line and 1/4 for the return?





Last edited by Confused Mopar; 01/28/18 01:48 PM.
Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a 70 Charger [Re: OrangeProwler] #2442179
01/28/18 01:21 PM
01/28/18 01:21 PM
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Middle of A Field
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OrangeProwler Offline OP
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The other thing I'm curious about too is the ignition setup. If I want the system to control the timing then I've been told an MSD Billet setup is what I might need? Anyways, thank you in advance.

Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a 70 Charger [Re: OrangeProwler] #2442214
01/28/18 02:12 PM
01/28/18 02:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,994
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Good questions and it sounds like you've been doing some research. If you want to control the ignition then you'll need to step up a notch to one of the better systems and you'll need to buy or modify a distributor so it works with the EFI. I recently worked on a SBF for a MSD Atomic. That is a fairly simple product that will control the ignition if you have a MSD setup.

The problem with all of these "low end" solutions is that they are all missing various features so once you start looking at them it is easy to migrate up the chain to a product with more features. You might look at the Holley Sniper and see if it has everything you need and if you can afford it. If you can afford the Sniper then that is probably the best fit for you.

If you want a professional opinion then call Rich at FAST Man EFI. He has seen it all and can set you up with whatever you need.

Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a '70 Charger [Re: OrangeProwler] #2442242
01/28/18 02:57 PM
01/28/18 02:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 254
Opelika, AL
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JRs_Charger Offline
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Opelika, AL
Ive been running the FItech (power adder 600hp version) with timing control and a tanks inc tank/Walbro pump for two years or so now. I've learned a few things.

The throttle body EFI should work fine with a stock intake manifold. I can't imagine any interference issues there. But you should block the heat crossover.

I cant say if it would clear a stock dual snorkel air cleaner, I've never tried that.

Tanks Inc will also sell you a matching sending unit and in tank fuel sender/pump when you buy the tank. They offer three different Walbros for different power levels. Stock appearance isnt much of a concern here, the only visual difference from a stock tank can't be seen after installation.

You'd absolutely have to run an aftermarket distributor with a phasable rotor to run timing control. I use the MSD, there's also a knock off version that works fine if you want to save some money. Here's a very helpful thread from Johnny at Pace Performance discussing distributors.

https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/fitech-efi-question-and-answer.27076/

If you decide to modify your stock tank, you MUST add baffles. If you try to run EFI on a non baffled tank, you'll suffer fuel starvation anytime you have less than a half tank of fuel. But the aftermarket tanks are (relatively) dirt cheap compared to the labor of modifying your old one, you may be well buy new.

And I strongly recommend going in tank versus external fuel pump.

The 3/8th fuel feed line is fine, but the 1/4 return line is a definite NO. The car would run with that, but you'll burn up fuel pumps very rapidly. A 5/16 return line is a bare minimum, but 3/8 return is ideal. There's minimal price difference between the two sizes, and you have to buy one anyways, so go for the 3/8 return.

And make absolutely sure your hard fuel lines are made of steel, not aluminum. I'm sure yours are likely steel, but it's one thing you must be 100% sure of for safety.

As for the sniper EFI, I worked on a friend's impala last month with the basic Sniper setup, and learned that it doesn't retain memory if the battery is run low. He had left his lights on by accident, and when he went to start the car afterwards, the computer had forgotten everything. Not just the tune, but basic setup. Engine size, cam size, cylinder count, etc. That was extremely annoying to reset everything the next day.
I don't know if that applies only to the entry level sniper, but that was very annoying. It turned me off of their product after that.

Make sure to use ethanol resistant braded hose (or EFI fuel line) at each end of the hard lines. Modern ethanol fuel can eat through the rubber lining of cheap braded hoses in no time.

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting, but those are the highlights. If you're on the fence, I say go for it. After two years and 15000 miles, I've enjoyed quick starting regardless of outside temps, not returning the old carb for weather changes, consistent performance, silky smooth throttle response, and my favorite, no more raw gasoline exhaust smell. I can drive the car for hours now and get out not smelling like fuel.

Hope this helps.

Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a '70 Charger [Re: OrangeProwler] #2442257
01/28/18 03:15 PM
01/28/18 03:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,827
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
Stud Muffin
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Central Florida
I have FiTech system on my '89 Diplomat Police with 410 stroker 360 that has an Eddy Air Gap intake. I was so relieved to have hood clearance to use my factory four barrel air cleaner, as I too like the factory look. I don't think you'll have any issue since I didn't with an air gap and Diplomat hood. I'm using factory linkage too.

I don't have an in-tank pump so can't answer those questions.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a 70 Charger [Re: OrangeProwler] #2442265
01/28/18 03:27 PM
01/28/18 03:27 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Aurora, Colorado
That Holley Sniper system looks nice and is actually less expensive than the FITech 600 power adder (ignition control) version.

Spectra Premium sells reproduction fuel tanks for EFI that come with a Welbro 225 LPH pump in the tank.
They list two EFI tanks, CR9AFI is without E.E.C, and CR9BFI is with the E.E.C emissions lines.

Quick search on the CR9AFI shows Auto Anything $347.33, and Summit Racing $405. Both say free shipping.
Rock Auto $355.79, but Not sure what shipping would be?

The Spectra tanks are good for the price, and use a stock type sending unit, but the fuel connections are the same hose ends as a stock sending unit too, so you have to use hose clamps on the fuel connections. Also, the pump and sending unit both go through the same sending unit hole. It would make the appearance look stock, but also makes getting the pump out a pain. Also, it would be hard to install a larger pump if you want to upgrade to something like the Welbro 450 LPH Flex fuel pump.
My Spectra tank has 3/8" supply line connection and 5/16" return line connection. Because I already had the EFI plumbed with 3/8" for supply and return with -6 AN fittings, I got AN to barbed fittings to adapt the AN hose to the spectra tank connectors. Also, Note that at the time I did this Tanks Inc did not have a FI tank for my Coronet.

The Tanks Inc tanks are nice too, likely more expensive after adding the fuel pump module and sending unit. I do like the fuel pump module setup better as it makes changing fuel pump types easier and the uses threaded connections to the fuel lines. I haven't used one of the Tanks Inc tanks, so I don't know how accurate the sending unit works?

Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a 70 Charger [Re: OrangeProwler] #2442387
01/28/18 07:16 PM
01/28/18 07:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,827
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
Stud Muffin
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Central Florida
On another car of mine I replaced the tank with a Spectra, and was happy with the tank. Although the factory sending unit was working fine, I decided to replace the sending unit since it was 30 years old and I was dropping tank anyway, so got a new Spectra sending unit. It never worked right and I wished I had left the factory one alone or located a NOS one. Afterwards, I read a lot of feedback the Spectra sending units were hit and miss.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a 70 Charger [Re: OrangeProwler] #2442532
01/28/18 11:15 PM
01/28/18 11:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 961
Carson City, Nevada
RobbMc Offline
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RobbMc  Offline
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Posts: 961
Carson City, Nevada
Another option is to retain your stock fuel system and then install a PowerSurge in the engine compartment. Your stock fuel system feeds the PowerSurge and then the PowerSurge feeds the fuel injection.

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/powersurge.html

I've run FITech with the PowerSurge on my daily driver for about two years.


Designing a better mouse trap always seems to lead to the evolution of smarter mice. www.robbmcperformance.com
Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a 70 Charger [Re: OrangeProwler] #2442552
01/28/18 11:54 PM
01/28/18 11:54 PM
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NY
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Beep Beep Offline
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I went with the tanks inc setup. I haven't installed it yet but it is a very nice setup. If you decided to use PTFE hose be careful on the hose ID.

The 6AN PTFE=(5/16 ID) hose is smaller then your standard 6AN=(3/8 ID) rubber hose. I went with 8AN PTFE which is slightly larger then 3/8 ID. If you buy the FItech or Holley Sniper Master kits they come with 6AN-3/8 ID rubber hose.

Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a 70 Charger [Re: RobbMc] #2442812
01/29/18 12:20 PM
01/29/18 12:20 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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DaveRS23  Offline
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Benton, IL.
Originally Posted By RobbMc
Another option is to retain your stock fuel system and then install a PowerSurge in the engine compartment. Your stock fuel system feeds the PowerSurge and then the PowerSurge feeds the fuel injection.

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/powersurge.html

I've run FITech with the PowerSurge on my daily driver for about two years.


Mercruiser used a system similar to that on their early EFI set-ups. It actually worked okay, but required some special attention if the unit was stored for more than a couple months. The small fuel pumps would stick unless some storage oil, or 2 stroke oil was mixed with the gas for storage.


Master, again and still
Re: Considering Fuel Injection for a 70 Charger [Re: DaveRS23] #2442995
01/29/18 06:45 PM
01/29/18 06:45 PM
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OrangeProwler Offline OP
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OrangeProwler  Offline OP
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Thank you again everyone whom has replied to this thread. RobbMc, I will keep that product in mind. Since, I'm replacing the entire fuel system then I'd rather run an in-tank setup.







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