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Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds #2439243
01/22/18 10:45 PM
01/22/18 10:45 PM
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Mr D21 Offline OP
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Looking for advice - if I insist on using the factory manifolds in my 440 / B - body, does it make sense to consider stoker kits or aluminum heads? Or would that be a waste of money?

Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439269
01/22/18 11:49 PM
01/22/18 11:49 PM
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AndyF Offline
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Not a waste of money at all. I run a low deck 512 in my B body car. It has ported Edelbrock heads and HP cast iron manifolds. The trick is getting the right cam ground for the engine. You don't want a lot of overlap with the manifolds.

Another thing to consider is going with EFI. EFI also works great with less overlap so the two work well together. You can build a really smooth quiet engine that will pull like a freight train. Make it 500 inches with ported aluminum heads, cast iron manifolds and EFI.

DSC_3759 (Large).JPG
Last edited by AndyF; 01/22/18 11:52 PM.
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439274
01/23/18 12:02 AM
01/23/18 12:02 AM
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GEORGIA
barracuda7199 Offline
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Cool stands for the front! And the look that car has is just mean! Polish all the trim and leave it old paint and rock it! You build some really nice cars!

Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: AndyF] #2439276
01/23/18 12:05 AM
01/23/18 12:05 AM
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar Offline
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I really like that car. Nothing to add about the manifolds, though.

Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439280
01/23/18 12:12 AM
01/23/18 12:12 AM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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I think it makes sense. But that's just me.

Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: AndyF] #2439304
01/23/18 12:34 AM
01/23/18 12:34 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Trick stuff Andy. what is the OD of the ex pipes?


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: RapidRobert] #2439366
01/23/18 02:38 AM
01/23/18 02:38 AM
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AndyF Offline
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I use 3 inch pipes coming off the manifolds. We custom built them since nobody sold this stuff back in the 90's when I built this car. These days someone might have 3 inch head pipes.

DSC_3740 (Large).JPG
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439375
01/23/18 02:58 AM
01/23/18 02:58 AM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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The exhaust manofilds can benefit from a combination of porting and extrude honing the intake.There are many upgrades that have been proven by the F.A.S.T. and Ralphs SUPERCARSERIES.Take some of those tricks and appy as you con.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj_p3GitRcs


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My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439400
01/23/18 03:47 AM
01/23/18 03:47 AM
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Moparteacher Offline
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TTI has 3" headpipes for the b-body manifolds. I have some. Nice thick flanges.

You will need the manifold casting numbers to get the correct pipes.

Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439563
01/23/18 02:53 PM
01/23/18 02:53 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I would suggest defining exactly what the goals for the build are, then determine if all the parameters can be met within the budget....... Without using headers.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking it will make just as much power without the headers....... It won't.

I've dynoed quite a few FAST builds, and I can tell you that's really the hard way to try and make power.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439704
01/23/18 08:07 PM
01/23/18 08:07 PM
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New York
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Don't fall into the trap of thinking it will make just as much power without the headers....... It won't.
This^^^

Better heads: definitely, more flow without extending cam duration.

What will help, but it's a PITA (if you can fit them at all): 1" thick steel exhaust flange as a spacer between the manifolds and the head (with longer studs). If you can't water-jet etc. you could use 3 X 3/8" common flanges each side.
1. straighter path for gas leaving the port before the turn
2. more volume inside the casting
3. keeps the pulses separated longer before merge
Yes, 6" thick would be better, but...


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Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: AndyF] #2439706
01/23/18 08:10 PM
01/23/18 08:10 PM
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Montreal Quebec
STROKIE Offline
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[quote=AndyF]Not a waste of money at all. I run a low deck 512 in my B body car. It has ported Edelbrock heads and HP cast iron manifolds. The trick is getting the right cam ground for the engine. You don't want a lot of overlap with the manifolds.

Can I ask you for a suggestion for a roller cam with cast iron manifolds (lot of overlap)...
My 451 with 3.23 rear end street tires 1967 Charger run 109.26 12.87 with stock Magnum cam and I wish go roller cam with manifolds
Thanks
https://youtu.be/tt-x-_3jjmE

Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: STROKIE] #2439756
01/23/18 10:19 PM
01/23/18 10:19 PM
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Scatchamatoon
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Saskabusa Offline
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Originally Posted By STROKIE

Can I ask you for a suggestion for a roller cam with cast iron manifolds (lot of overlap)...
My 451 with 3.23 rear end street tires 1967 Charger run 109.26 12.87 with stock Magnum cam and I wish go roller cam with manifolds
Thanks
https://youtu.be/tt-x-_3jjmE


I have a 67 Charger with a 451 low deck. Unported Stealth heads SD intake and 74 magnum exhaust manifolds and TTI head pipes.

The cam is a comp 308 roller

The car has ladder bars with 4500 stall and 4.1 gears.

It ran 12.0 @ 111 mph

I didn't run it very much in this configuration. I quickly installed a set of hooker competition headers.

It has ran a best of 11.53@116 after a little bit of tuning with headers.

I never drove it on the street so I am not sure what its manners are like. It seems fine in the pits, starts really well.

This was not the best choice but it was what I had.


1974 Roadrunner

1967 Charger
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439770
01/23/18 10:40 PM
01/23/18 10:40 PM
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Michigan
MarkZ Offline
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I hate long tubes headers, but discovered I wasn't a fan of exhaust manifolds either - they really do make it a PITA to reach the plugs. I ended up having a set of shorty headers custom made with 1 7/8" primary tubes and 3" outlets. Couldn't be happier.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439772
01/23/18 10:42 PM
01/23/18 10:42 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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The FAST motors I've tested were all serious underachievers when considering the amount of time, effort, and $$$ invested.
That's just the nature of the beast with those things, and a build not required to be legal for the class would certainly be able to bring the numbers up a bit by not having to use the stock heads and intake manifolds.
However, running the non-scavanging exhaust manifolds does impose some limits on the parts choices.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2439833
01/24/18 01:09 AM
01/24/18 01:09 AM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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It does not sound like the OP is suggesting or hoping to match header power with manifolds.

My junk is pretty simple. 120 mph at 4150 lb in a car with basically a stock factory suspension. Seems like okay power to me. If it were any faster I'd need a roll bar, and that is not going to happen. It will drive through the neighbor at 1100 rpm in third gear with no problem.

I did choose to purchase a roller cam, but here is what I did not have to purchase: headers, starter, 3" exhaust, converter, gear, tires.

Certainly not the fastest car around, but I wish I had a dollar for every header car I've spanked.

Personally, I would not put headers on a from scratch build unless I was also planning to install a roll bar.

As mentioned, it is a matter of what the OPs goals are.

Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Moparteacher] #2439871
01/24/18 02:44 AM
01/24/18 02:44 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Originally Posted By Moparteacher
TTI has 3" headpipes for the b-body manifolds. I have some. Nice thick flanges.

You will need the manifold casting numbers to get the correct pipes.
Thank you, I will check their site.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2440145
01/24/18 05:43 PM
01/24/18 05:43 PM
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dogdays Offline
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I hope you're only talking about exhaust manifolds.

Extrude honing has fallen out of favor. The results aren't worth the price. I'm guessing a cost of between $50 and $100 per horsepower. https://boneheadperformance.com/extrude-honing/extrude-hone-pricing/
As famous engine builder Joe Sherman said, "It is a total big waste of money==TOO BAD".

Increasing flow in the cylinder head allows one to use a smaller camshaft for the same power. Getting air into the engine is more difficult than getting it out because less pressure available to push it in than to push it out. So good heads will always help.

Making the engine bigger may not increase the horsepower if the engine is flow-limited, but it does move the torque curve down the rpm scale and thus the vehicle feels much stronger. So for a street driven vehicle, assuming you can get grip, the larger engine will always feel more powerful. Alternately, you can decrease the gear ratio and keep the vehicle feeling the same.

R.

Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2440404
01/25/18 03:51 AM
01/25/18 03:51 AM
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NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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Bsb...

I've always felt your combo is one of the most impressive combos on this board.👍👍


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: Building a HP 440 with Factory Manifolds [Re: Mr D21] #2440423
01/25/18 06:32 AM
01/25/18 06:32 AM
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Arlington, Texas
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bobby66 Offline
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How do you guys get around the plug clearance problem with Edlebrock heads and HP manifolds? Don't the angled plugs get really close to the heat?


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