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Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: rustbucket] #243227
03/06/09 09:13 AM
03/06/09 09:13 AM
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Florida
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hemisurfer Offline
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Florida
Not true, I was able to use the springs and retainers that were supplied with my solid lifter cam. I sent them to Modern Cylinder Heads and they cleaned up the valve job and put dampers in the spring for 50 bucks. The heads work great.


Chris
Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: jsmopar1072] #243228
03/06/09 04:27 PM
03/06/09 04:27 PM
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Posts: 5,472
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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Be sure to check a couple of things...
1. If one is using pushrod with a bigger diameter than 5/16" you likely will have to mill out the hole for clearance.
2. If using a high lift cam (>0.500) one should check for valve spring windup
3. If using high ratio rockers be sure to check clearance for the rockers

Overall the heads look pretty good and the price is rite..
But if one is looking to put these into a hipo track car with certain exotic valve train components, it is strongly urged that a complete checkout be done by an experienced machinist for the above points..

Just my $0.02..

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: Sinitro] #243229
03/06/09 04:30 PM
03/06/09 04:30 PM
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Florida
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hemisurfer Offline
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agreed - mine needed clearancing on the intake side for the pushrods.


Chris
Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: hemisurfer] #243230
03/06/09 05:39 PM
03/06/09 05:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,343
MARYLAND
69Cuda340S Offline
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All the aftermarket heads should be gone over by a reputable shop. Valve jobs should be gone over and valve guide clearance should be checked at a minimum.

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: 69Cuda340S] #243231
03/06/09 06:47 PM
03/06/09 06:47 PM
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Florida
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hemisurfer Offline
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Florida
very true, too many on Moparts think you can just bolt the heads on and go Edelbrock, Indy, Stealth...then if they have an issue they blame the mfg.

I had the spring dampers added, ported, valve job corrected, and had my engine builder clearance the pushrod holes. The Stealth heads work great and all the work that was done would have been necessary with the more expensive Edelbrocks.


Chris
Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: Sinitro] #243232
03/06/09 06:53 PM
03/06/09 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,076
Renton, Wa.
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Classof70Chally Offline
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Quote:

Be sure to check a couple of things...
1. If one is using pushrod with a bigger diameter than 5/16" you likely will have to mill out the hole for clearance.
2. If using a high lift cam (>0.500) one should check for valve spring windup
3. If using high ratio rockers be sure to check clearance for the rockers

Overall the heads look pretty good and the price is rite..
But if one is looking to put these into a hipo track car with certain exotic valve train components, it is strongly urged that a complete checkout be done by an experienced machinist for the above points..

Just my $0.02..


FYI on my Stealth heads (first run) I had good clearance on the pushrod holes with 3/8 rods and a .540 lift cam. I also upgraded the locks and retainers and used the existing springs and added a set of Mopar perf inner springs for my hyd roller.

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: hemisurfer] #243233
03/06/09 06:59 PM
03/06/09 06:59 PM
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Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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Quote:

very true, too many on Moparts think you can just bolt the heads on and go Edelbrock, Indy, Stealth...then if they have an issue they blame the mfg.





No, too many poorly made aftermarket parts have made you think you should have to modify a part you just paid thousands of dollars for, and not be able to blame them if it's wrong...

I'm not saying your wrong because I check everything, but if I find something wrong, you can bet the manufacture is going to fix it, not me...

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: dizuster] #243234
03/06/09 10:21 PM
03/06/09 10:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
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MARYLAND
69Cuda340S Offline
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Doesn't matter what head you buy or how much they cost, they need to be gone over by a reputable shop to insure they will perform correctly and hold up over time.

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: moparmanjames] #243235
03/06/09 11:12 PM
03/06/09 11:12 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Canton, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

There is a guy here that had a BRAND NEW set crack and break off an entire cylinder. This is no joke. They did send him a new head and told him due to the way the cast/machine these heads to only torque them to 50 ft/lbs. This is a true story. I'll try and get pictures of the one that broke, a complete, cylinder off.




Wha??? Ok I might be wrong but I want to be the first to call BS!





The new Max torque is 40 ft/lbs, not 50!

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: Sport440] #243236
03/06/09 11:50 PM
03/06/09 11:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,637
Western Michigan
68Fastback Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

There is a guy here that had a BRAND NEW set crack and break off an entire cylinder. This is no joke. They did send him a new head and told him due to the way the cast/machine these heads to only torque them to 50 ft/lbs. This is a true story. I'll try and get pictures of the one that broke, a complete, cylinder off.




Wha??? Ok I might be wrong but I want to be the first to call BS!





The new Max torque is 40 ft/lbs, not 50!




I did ask if that person was on here to share the story, you know it is friday nite and a good beer and tall tale is in order.

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: dizuster] #243237
03/06/09 11:58 PM
03/06/09 11:58 PM
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Florida
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hemisurfer Offline
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there is no way a mfg can make a head that will work with every engine combo, cam, deck height, piston etc. Bolt on heads are for dead stock combos, how many that buy aluminum heads run a factory stock motor with no mods including decking, head milling etc? There is no panacea bolt on head that will fit right for everybody the first time.Expecting a head to bolt on with no need for mods or massaging is unrealistic and leads to failures breakage etc. Also if you're trying to squeeze some extra HP there always are mods you can make to improve ANY head.

-just a note my stock 906 heads had to have the intake pushrod holes modified, bowls cleaned up (factory flash, unshrouded the valves) and the valves were seated correctly (stock valves) for better flow on my motor before I switched to the Stealth heads. The stock 906's also flowed like crap and could have used some very expensive port work but I chose not to make that investment.

I guess I should call Mopar and tell them their heads are garbage because they didn't bolt on without spending a bunch of $$$ to get them to work right.

Last edited by hemisurfer; 03/07/09 07:07 AM.
Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: hemisurfer] #243238
03/07/09 08:48 AM
03/07/09 08:48 AM
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southwest Alabama
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I just got mine on a new build and I'm very happy with them even though I did a lot of work to them.

As mentioned, whatever head you go with you need to check them out or have them checked out including mock up. There is not a head out there that will bolt on every motor combo and work.

I won't bother with a set of 30+ year old stock iron heads with the selection of heads we have now-a-days.

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: challenger73400] #243239
03/07/09 09:06 AM
03/07/09 09:06 AM
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Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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I'm not saying that you don't need the correct springs/spring heights/etc... but what I am saying is that I shouldn't have to put guides in the head, re-do the valve job, or have to resurface the deck even though the compression ratio is fine.

Whats the point in buying a complete head if you ahve to take it back apart and fix/finish the machine work?

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: slippery440] #243240
03/07/09 09:39 AM
03/07/09 09:39 AM
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mopar heaven
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rustbucket Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

You cannot buy them unassembled. If you want to build anything really healthy you are going to have to buy new springs , retainers and locks. I did not want to waste money on parts I would never use.....That is why I did not buy them.




This is the answer you get from the people that don't own a pair and just want to stir up crap.
Do a search on the heads and you will find hundreds of opinions.
I own a pair of the first that was made.I have beat the snot out of them for 1 season. I gained .2 to .35 in the 1/8th mile over a pair of very good ported 915s.No other changes just the heads.I had to use roller springs so the stock retainers and springs had to be replaced but there was nothing wrong with them.




Sorry, but I'm not stirring the pot..... HAve you called 440 source and asked if they sell these heads bare?????? I have..... and they do not sell them bare.... period. I did not say there was anything wrong with the heads! I just don't want to be forced to buy complete heads only to rebuy parts so they will work with mycombination.... thats all I said!!!

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: slippery440] #243241
03/07/09 09:57 AM
03/07/09 09:57 AM
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mopar heaven
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rustbucket Offline
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Quote:

DRAM I read the if you want to build anything healthy you would need to change the springs and retainers and locks. Well DAH that is a no brainer and aplys to all the out of box heads.I am not talking about the high dollar B1s or Indys.I wonder what Rustbucket bought instead?He didn't say.
I will put it to you this way .If I had a prety heathy motor that had a cam that had a lift of lets say .540 I would take the stealth heads out of the box and bolt them on.I would put alot of machine shops out of buiness.

Everyone needs to stop and think before jumping a idea.
It should be a moparts rule that if you post on any product either bad or good you first must own that product and used it personly.This would stop all the mopar gods that sit in there own little world and make judgement calls on products they have never used.BTW That was not pointed at you Dram.I see that you have used them. You said a mouth full when you said they ALL have pro's and con's.




Again did you read the gentlemans question??? "Can you buy Stealth heads bare?" I answered from first hand experience from calling 440 source....... For my application those parts would be basically tossed aside. I actually did call tobuy them and would own them if they were sold bare. I think this makes me certified to answer his question as to whether they can be bought bare or not.

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: rustbucket] #243242
03/07/09 10:57 AM
03/07/09 10:57 AM
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Central New York
slippery440 Offline
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Central New York
rustbucket a couple of questions.
What did you end up buying and the cost of the bare heads?
What did you pay to have the machine work done to just stock form out of the box Stealth head.
Cost of the valves?
Cost of the springs-retainers - locks- cups

I gess my point is that you said that you didn't need to buy parts that you would not use.Well even if you throw the springs out and all the retainers and locks your still ahead of the game by buying Stealth heads at $950.

Motors are not rocket science and most of us farmers do not need to tweek every little part to get that .00001 more ET.I look at it this way. If I buy a Honda car you will not see me tearing it apart just to make sure the the guy that assembled it did his job right.I personaly think that most aftermarket parts would work fine for 70% of the guys that are building a healthy motor without tweeking.We read on here where a guy that has a nine second car and he tweeked the heads and change this and that and all of the sudden we need to do that to our 13 second car.
I find that the differance between my slow 10.6 car and his 9 second car is thousands of dollars.When I line up to race him there is no differance.


If the MODS did their job I would not be hitting the notify MOD button. LOL
Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: rustbucket] #243243
03/07/09 11:15 AM
03/07/09 11:15 AM
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Riverside, Ca
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G_bob Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

DRAM I read the if you want to build anything healthy you would need to change the springs and retainers and locks. Well DAH that is a no brainer and aplys to all the out of box heads.I am not talking about the high dollar B1s or Indys.I wonder what Rustbucket bought instead?He didn't say.
I will put it to you this way .If I had a prety heathy motor that had a cam that had a lift of lets say .540 I would take the stealth heads out of the box and bolt them on.I would put alot of machine shops out of buiness.

Everyone needs to stop and think before jumping a idea.
It should be a moparts rule that if you post on any product either bad or good you first must own that product and used it personly.This would stop all the mopar gods that sit in there own little world and make judgement calls on products they have never used.BTW That was not pointed at you Dram.I see that you have used them. You said a mouth full when you said they ALL have pro's and con's.




Again did you read the gentlemans question??? "Can you buy Stealth heads bare?" I answered from first hand experience from calling 440 source....... For my application those parts would be basically tossed aside. I actually did call tobuy them and would own them if they were sold bare. I think this makes me certified to answer his question as to whether they can be bought bare or not.




If one wants bare heads, close to that price range, the choice is then edelbrocks. Of course, the bare heads will still cost more than the complete stealths, and won't look like a stock head. So...

Those heads are meant for a certain market. And are offered only one way to take advantage of the economies of scale. Variety causes extra labor which in turn causes additonal cost. As said by previous posters, stealth heads aren't, and never were, meant for all out builds. Just a solid stock looking replacement for ported stockers that would work well on a mild build.

FWIW, I used the springs that came on my stealths with the .545 lift comp xe275hl cam in the 426. With only 9.6 cr, it makes 470hp.

I replaced the springs, retainers, locks on my edelbrocks when I went to a .630 roller cam in the coronet motor.

I had to have two "too tight" guides re-done, as well as the valve job on the edelbrocks on the challenger motor.

I also had the valve job re-done, along with the porting work, on the edelbrock victor max wedge head on the new coronet motor.

I'm just say'in.....

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: G_bob] #243244
03/07/09 01:20 PM
03/07/09 01:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Overpriced Housing Central
Also, having them in bare and complete units require the stocking of two different items.

The difference in price was something like $40 for bare vs. complete when I spoke with Brandon a while back.

Buy them complete and sell the stuff you don't use for $40 or possibly more. You're in the same net position, or possibly better, when done.

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: RobX4406] #243245
03/07/09 01:23 PM
03/07/09 01:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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I read brandon posting that too many customers were wanting to order bare heads + valves. For the extra effort, it made more sense to just charge a little bit more and sell the complete unit. Easier for him, and the customer is still getting a good bang for their buck.

Re: stealth heads??????? [Re: slippery440] #243246
03/07/09 04:50 PM
03/07/09 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 982
mopar heaven
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rustbucket Offline
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Quote:

rustbucket a couple of questions.
What did you end up buying and the cost of the bare heads?
What did you pay to have the machine work done to just stock form out of the box Stealth head.
Cost of the valves?
Cost of the springs-retainers - locks- cups

I gess my point is that you said that you didn't need to buy parts that you would not use.Well even if you throw the springs out and all the retainers and locks your still ahead of the game by buying Stealth heads at $950.

Motors are not rocket science and most of us farmers do not need to tweek every little part to get that .00001 more ET.I look at it this way. If I buy a Honda car you will not see me tearing it apart just to make sure the the guy that assembled it did his job right.I personaly think that most aftermarket parts would work fine for 70% of the guys that are building a healthy motor without tweeking.We read on here where a guy that has a nine second car and he tweeked the heads and change this and that and all of the sudden we need to do that to our 13 second car.
I find that the differance between my slow 10.6 car and his 9 second car is thousands of dollars.When I line up to race him there is no differance.




I already had my titanium valves, retainers, locks, and valve springs that are matched to the 670 lift roller cam I am using. My choice for head was either stock cast iron or these stealth heads (because they look stock) I simply stated that I called to buy the stealth heads bare and 440 source said no. One of the questions for this thread was if 440 source sold them bare and I answered his question. I have bought bare Heads from Stage V, Indy and Mopar Performance. I think asking a manufacterer if they sell their heads bare is a legitimate question. Also, if brandon from 440 source only values the springs, retainers and locks at 40 bucks ( as stated by someone else in this thread) I would be very cautious about the quality of those parts. Every time I have ever used cheaper parts than what I knew I should be using, they were the first to break and then usually took out something else..... but thats just my experience.

The bottom line is I answered the gentlemans question.... why is everybody attacking me???

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