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Dry sump vs wet: School me #2420013
12/17/17 07:56 PM
12/17/17 07:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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Lakewood, Colorado
Haven't been here for awhile. Yet another new project in the works now.

I picked up a 500" KB Mopar aluminum block with original B1 heads. I'll have to rework some things from the previous use as a roundy-round motor. Originally was set up as with a dry sump oiling system and still has the oil pan. No pump, mount, drive system etc.

Converting this to a drag racing setup for a 70 Duster. Looks like I could go external wet or dry sump. I get the advantages of less oil in the motor with a dry sump, but is the benefit worth the potential $4k investment? Being an aftermarket block, I don't see any provisions for internal oiling which is fine. Shooting for 10.0 up here on the hill.


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420024
12/17/17 08:20 PM
12/17/17 08:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,596
Byron, NY
W.I.N. racing Offline
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W.I.N. racing  Offline
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Byron, NY
As a bracket racer no benefit. As a corner turner it was useful to control oil slosh in the turns. A proper baffled pan and an external pickup and your all set. twocents


FOR SALE'02 D1500, Blown/Inj KB, Veny Heads,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 FOR SALE
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'05 Dodge Magnum R/T8
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'64 Plymouth Valiant S/P, 528 Hemi, 2spd
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420029
12/17/17 08:36 PM
12/17/17 08:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,792
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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AndyF  Offline
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Oregon
There are a lot of nice advantages to a dry sump system but they might not be worth the money and hassle for your car. You can get some of the same advantages with an external belt driven pump but you'll also have some of the same hassles. I have a couple of dry sump BB Mopar engines. It can be a hassle to put them all together but the engines have a much better chance of staying together when they are being fed high quality oil rather than foam.

DSC_1370 (Large).JPGR4mount.jpg
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: AndyF] #2420067
12/17/17 10:02 PM
12/17/17 10:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
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Dave Hall  Offline
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Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Does Redline foam? grin One easy thing to think about is the oil level in the engine. I have never run a dipstick on my race engine. With a dry sump tank you will know exactly how much oil is in there. It also pulls vacuum which is great for these. You are half way there with the pan. Get the other parts and make it happen. My twocents

Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420121
12/18/17 12:05 AM
12/18/17 12:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Lakewood, Colorado
Looking at how the pan is configured, everything is on the right side so I would have to probably add some fittings anyway. Not sure if having the kickout on the right side would make much difference if there was 2 outlets on the back.

What all is involved in designing a system that works? Looks to be confusing as to how many stages etc.


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420125
12/18/17 12:12 AM
12/18/17 12:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,679
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Las Vegas
IMO for a bracket car it is NOT worth the expense in a Mopar block design. If you are looking every last little HP then its worth looking at. Otherwise the extra expense is better used elsewhere.

Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420136
12/18/17 12:21 AM
12/18/17 12:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,327
aZLiViN
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J_BODY Offline
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aZLiViN
An RB based race motor for "circle track"... in which theater was that used? just curious smile

Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420143
12/18/17 12:30 AM
12/18/17 12:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer Offline OP
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herkamer  Offline OP
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Lakewood, Colorado
I don't think it would make enough of a HP difference for my goal. I figure if I ever want to change it later, I can add some boost to it.

Motor came from Ohio. Some dirt track car I guess.


Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420182
12/18/17 01:18 AM
12/18/17 01:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,621
New York
polyspheric Offline
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polyspheric  Offline
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New York
A wet sump is close if the pan is deep enough that the crank is well above any oil level including high G and high negative G.
Really de-aerating oil requires a tall vertical tank, air comes out of suspension as it passes through. By comparison, a wet sump may only be a few inches deep and returned oil may reach the pickup in seconds, unless the pan is very baffled to form a labyrinth.


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Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420319
12/18/17 01:00 PM
12/18/17 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,049
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
I think the main reason for running a dry sump for people like us is they look sexy. To me a lot of the fun of working on these cars is the beautiful parts we have to work with.

drysump.JPG
Last edited by rickseeman; 12/18/17 01:01 PM.

2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: rickseeman] #2420398
12/18/17 03:24 PM
12/18/17 03:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,000
Trumussia
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jcc Offline
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Trumussia
Hey, this is a family site, at least warn us first. up grin

LS motor?


Discovering "good trouble" everyday
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420426
12/18/17 04:15 PM
12/18/17 04:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,754
Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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astjp2  Offline
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Utah and Alaska
I only wish I could afford a dry sump pan for my Hemi, because if I could afford the dry sump, I could afford to finish my car...


1941 Taylorcraft
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1998 Wrangler
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Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420438
12/18/17 04:32 PM
12/18/17 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,792
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
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AndyF  Offline
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Oregon
I built a billet pan for my 470. It is sitting on the shelf if anyone really needs a super low profile dry sump pan for a wedge or Hemi.

DSC_0291 (Large).JPG
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420445
12/18/17 04:39 PM
12/18/17 04:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,049
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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rickseeman  Offline
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
Hemi


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Dry sump vs wet: School me [Re: herkamer] #2420456
12/18/17 04:48 PM
12/18/17 04:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,621
New York
polyspheric Offline
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polyspheric  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,621
New York
Never mind


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