Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Considering new Borgeson box #2404389
11/16/17 04:38 AM
11/16/17 04:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,059
Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts Offline OP
super stock
JF_Moparts  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,059
Los Angeles, CA
The latest issue of Mopar Action has an article about the 2nd Generation Borgeson box and insulated coupler. Does anyone have any experience with this setup?

I currently run a stage III firm feel box with extended pitman and idlers, but I like the idea of a 14:1 Borgeson with shorter/stock pitman and idlers to allow better exhaust clearance.

Any stories, any wisdom to share?

Oh - this would be for my 71 Satellite Sebring.

Thanks.

Jim

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2404433
11/16/17 11:44 AM
11/16/17 11:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 157
Mountain View, CA
6
68rrunner Offline
member
68rrunner  Offline
member
6

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 157
Mountain View, CA
They have installation issues and a few manufacturing flaws to keep your eyes peels for, but if you know the hurdles, it's a good swap if you have a factory box that is worn out.

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2404480
11/16/17 02:01 PM
11/16/17 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,113
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,113
So Cal
Originally Posted By JF_Moparts
The latest issue of Mopar Action has an article about the 2nd Generation Borgeson box and insulated coupler. Does anyone have any experience with this setup?

I currently run a stage III firm feel box with extended pitman and idlers, but I like the idea of a 14:1 Borgeson with shorter/stock pitman and idlers to allow better exhaust clearance.

Any stories, any wisdom to share?

Oh - this would be for my 71 Satellite Sebring.

Thanks.

Jim


I talked to them at SEMA and they showed me that coupler.

IMG_0387.JPG

Spring Fling 33
April 13 & 14, 2019
Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
www.cpwclub.com
500+ show cars, 200+ swap, manf. midways
Malibu Cruise, Cruise-In
Free Spectator Admission!
Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: autoxcuda] #2404543
11/16/17 05:13 PM
11/16/17 05:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,083
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline
super stock
Mopar Mitch  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,083
NW Chicago suburban area
Isn't the turning radius enlarged by using the Borgs'n box? I thought I read that recently on another post somewhere. Enlarging the turning radius isn't something desirable.

The Chrysler factory box with the longer arms (pitman and idler) become 12.7:1 ratio... with 2.7 turns lock-to-lock... still faster than the Borgs'n box which, I believe, is 3.5 turns lock-to-lock, and a relatively slower ratio of 16:1... same as a factory Chrysler box having the short arms.

The biggest advantage I see with the Borgs'n box is the reduced weight of ~10 pounds.... off the front-end of the car... improves overall handling response with less weight. But... the steering is still faster lock-to-lock the factory Chrysler box having the longer arms.

Also, the longer idler arm -- some call it the "fast-ratio idler arm" is simply a C-Body idler arm (~1970 Fury, etc)... always has been this, always will remain this. Chrysler simply realized they forgot to add it to their assembly line whenever the T/A box was installed (having the longer "Fast-Ratio" pitman arm. (No company can make a claim for "developing" or "creating" a "fast-ratio" idler arm... it's simply the C-body arm.)

The coupler which Bergman Automotive sells is a great item for anyone installing the Borgs'n box.

One thing that I've never been able to get any answers are ... is IF the Borgs'n box can accept the longer "Fast-Ratio" pitman arm, and then to also install the C-body longer idler arm ... that would make things very interesting and more desirable to me. Faster, lighter... all that becomes much better!!!


Last edited by Mopar Mitch; 11/16/17 05:19 PM.

Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2404794
11/17/17 02:04 AM
11/17/17 02:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,837
Granite Bay CA
Frankenduster Offline
Moparts proctologist
Frankenduster  Offline
Moparts proctologist

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,837
Granite Bay CA
Mitch, the Borgeson box is supposed to be 14 to 1.

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: Frankenduster] #2404838
11/17/17 03:57 AM
11/17/17 03:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,083
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline
super stock
Mopar Mitch  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,083
NW Chicago suburban area
OK... 14:1... I forgot (thought I read 16:1 recently).


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2405130
11/17/17 07:17 PM
11/17/17 07:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 583
nj
J
JAMESDART Offline
mopar
JAMESDART  Offline
mopar
J

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 583
nj
I was on the fence with the 1st borgeson box. When they released it, I jumped. I put something like a Toyota pickup and a stock hard line ends together and had it crimped
At a hydraulic shop instead of adapters. A also added a cooler while I had the system apart. The biggest advantage to me is the space on a big block a body. The ratio is nice.

The only problem I've had is my stock Saginaw pump isn't keeping up at idle, especially when the ps fluid is cool. I don't know if I need a fresh pump, or need to adapt a newer jeep style pump.

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: autoxcuda] #2405309
11/18/17 03:03 AM
11/18/17 03:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,059
Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts Offline OP
super stock
JF_Moparts  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,059
Los Angeles, CA
Here's what's on their store page. I think it looks a little different, but can't tell for sure.

http://bergmanautocraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=5-0010

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2405311
11/18/17 03:06 AM
11/18/17 03:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,059
Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts Offline OP
super stock
JF_Moparts  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,059
Los Angeles, CA
My Firm Feel stage 3 box is nice, but my header clearance is killing me. I have those pipes twisted into a pretzel to clear the longer arms and I'm probably losing some hp as a result. My understanding is also that the Borgeson box has less of a dead spot than the stock Firm Feel.

I just don't want to spend all that money to find out that it's no improvement.

What's the issue with the turning radius? Do the internal stops prevent the tires from turning as far as they should?

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2405330
11/18/17 04:49 AM
11/18/17 04:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,837
Granite Bay CA
Frankenduster Offline
Moparts proctologist
Frankenduster  Offline
Moparts proctologist

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,837
Granite Bay CA
Dents in your headers? Haven't you heard?
Hot Rod magazine did dyno tests where they compared an engine with new headers THEN started denting them to see what effect it had. It had very little effect. So little, you'd probably kick yourself in the ass for spending $1000 to swap to a different steering box if the goal was to gain any power.

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2405470
11/18/17 03:18 PM
11/18/17 03:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 193
Alberta Canada
P
PossessedDuster Offline
member
PossessedDuster  Offline
member
P

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 193
Alberta Canada
Watch this if you think a few dents will be killing any real power

Ctual address of the video thing doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azPKIjxmmdU


Last edited by PossessedDuster; 11/18/17 03:19 PM.
Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2405483
11/18/17 03:45 PM
11/18/17 03:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,622
up yours
S
Supercuda Offline
I want my mommy!!
Supercuda  Offline
I want my mommy!!
S

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,622
up yours


Gotta take the "s" out of https

Last edited by Supercuda; 11/18/17 03:46 PM.

They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: autoxcuda] #2405603
11/18/17 07:48 PM
11/18/17 07:48 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 387
Northern California
L
lilcuda Offline
enthusiast
lilcuda  Offline
enthusiast
L

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 387
Northern California
Originally Posted By autoxcuda
Originally Posted By JF_Moparts
The latest issue of Mopar Action has an article about the 2nd Generation Borgeson box and insulated coupler. Does anyone have any experience with this setup?

I currently run a stage III firm feel box with extended pitman and idlers, but I like the idea of a 14:1 Borgeson with shorter/stock pitman and idlers to allow better exhaust clearance.

Any stories, any wisdom to share?

Oh - this would be for my 71 Satellite Sebring.

Thanks.

Jim


I talked to them at SEMA and they showed me that coupler.



How exactly is that coupler insulated? shruggy

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2405625
11/18/17 08:21 PM
11/18/17 08:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,473
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
master
BigBlockMopar  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,473
The Netherlands
It's fairly insulated as long as it's kept in its packaging... laugh

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: Frankenduster] #2406076
11/19/17 09:24 PM
11/19/17 09:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 81
NJ
J
JH23 Offline
member
JH23  Offline
member
J

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 81
NJ
Originally Posted By Frankenduster
Dents in your headers? Haven't you heard?
Hot Rod magazine did dyno tests where they compared an engine with new headers THEN started denting them to see what effect it had. It had very little effect. So little, you'd probably kick yourself in the ass for spending $1000 to swap to a different steering box if the goal was to gain any power.


How would the "dents" affect a Gen II stroked Hemi?

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JH23] #2406093
11/19/17 10:14 PM
11/19/17 10:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,622
up yours
S
Supercuda Offline
I want my mommy!!
Supercuda  Offline
I want my mommy!!
S

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,622
up yours
Originally Posted By JH23
Originally Posted By Frankenduster
Dents in your headers? Haven't you heard?
Hot Rod magazine did dyno tests where they compared an engine with new headers THEN started denting them to see what effect it had. It had very little effect. So little, you'd probably kick yourself in the ass for spending $1000 to swap to a different steering box if the goal was to gain any power.


How would the "dents" affect a Gen II stroked Hemi?


Get a dyno and find out


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JH23] #2406094
11/19/17 10:20 PM
11/19/17 10:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,837
Granite Bay CA
Frankenduster Offline
Moparts proctologist
Frankenduster  Offline
Moparts proctologist

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,837
Granite Bay CA
Originally Posted By JH23
Originally Posted By Frankenduster
Dents in your headers? Haven't you heard?
Hot Rod magazine did dyno tests where they compared an engine with new headers THEN started denting them to see what effect it had. It had very little effect. So little, you'd probably kick yourself in the ass for spending $1000 to swap to a different steering box if the goal was to gain any power.


How would the "dents" affect a Gen II stroked Hemi?


I don't know why it would be any different than any other application.

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2407016
11/21/17 09:13 PM
11/21/17 09:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 681
eastern,Ky
70RT Charger Offline
mopar
70RT Charger  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 681
eastern,Ky
My buddy just installed my Borgeson and pump in my car that I bought off of Bergman and it was gravy he said. The TTI headers and everything also fit flawlessly he said

Last edited by 70RT Charger; 11/21/17 09:13 PM.
Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: 70RT Charger] #2408070
11/24/17 12:01 AM
11/24/17 12:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,178
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here
DAYCLONA  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,178
Mass
Originally Posted By 70RT Charger
My buddy just installed my Borgeson and pump in my car that I bought off of Bergman and it was gravy he said. The TTI headers and everything also fit flawlessly he said



Great to hear! don't forget to take pics of the SST Tremec 6spd install when you get to it, I'd like to see how it works out in a 2nd gen B body

Mike

Re: Considering new Borgeson box [Re: JF_Moparts] #2411116
11/30/17 02:29 AM
11/30/17 02:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,445
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
pro stock
dangina  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,445
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Make sure to get the flow control valve for the saginaw so its not so twitchy on the road. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/400651963891?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

For my 71 roadrunner, the very same car your running,
I have the boreson with the saginaw pump(with flow control valve changed) and a small ps cooler, smaller steering wheel(350mm), fast ratio arms, sector support kit and idler roller bearing kit all from firm feel. http://www.firmfeel.com/b_body_mopar_parts.html
I'm not sure if your planning to do fast ratio arms or not, but you should weld up the ps box support on your kmember or add braces to strengthen it up, make sure you use loctite on the bolts that bolt the boregson to the kmember, the sector support do help keep everything nice and straight and tight. I'm telling you all of this because my first go round with the boregson was not pretty- there was so much stress on the box with the faster ratio arms and the fast ratio of the boregson that I cracked my pump in two spots. And when I moved the steering from side to side, I could see the boregson move up and down inside the bolt holes that hold the damn thing in place. Now with everything I have, nothing moves and the steering is beautiful, My turning radius from lock to lock is about 1.8 turns, I highly recommend it!

Last edited by dangina; 11/30/17 02:31 AM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Advertisement
Forum Statistics
Forums32
Topics193,779
Posts2,261,369
Members25,797
Most Online1,424
Jun 20th, 2018
Moparts Newest Topics
DOT or NOT?
by fullmetaljacket. 03/20/19 12:13 AM
1966 Plymouth Belvedere Dash Frame
by VegasCharger. 03/19/19 11:00 PM
Go-Mango Daytona for sale!!!
by RCKTMN. 03/19/19 09:58 PM
273 2V bogging
by dfsmopars. 03/19/19 09:41 PM

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1