Well, Michelle was wondering how the Prima Donna (the 70 RR) would react to her Land Rover parking in its sot while the Land Rover gets its head gasket replaced. We found out this afternoon. Leaving the airport, after picking up my friend, I am going through the gears and have shifted into fourth when it makes tow loud pops then silence. I push in the clutch, try starting it, no go. I pull off to the left onto the shoulder, stop teh car, try trouble shooting. No luck. It has what appears to be no spark. Plenty of gas, at leas enough for it to try to run as the accel pump squirts out fuel. Finally, it fires up but does not run well. I try to at least get it home but it dies again and we are coming up to an area with no shoulder so I pull off to the left again and park. We call my neighbor for the # of Benny's towing and while on the phone Michelle says "I have it here in my book". Hmm, what does it say that the local towing guy's number is in her book of important #'s. Anyway, Billzo (my friend) and Michelle flag down a taxi van and go the place he is staying, I wait for Benny the towing guy to pick up the car. Benny shows up and we get the car home, I pay him (he gives me a break, bless his heart) he commented that the car had been running well at the track. I did a bit of trouble shooting. I looked up the MSD manual for a 6AL and did the test procedure for the MSD and coil. This procedure is to jump the purple and green wires while holding the distributor end of the coil 1/2" from ground. I did this and it sparked each time. So the MSD appears to be good. It seems to have fuel. It has oil pressure and turns over fine. The distributor rotor turns so it is not a broken cam or timing chain.

Any ideas on what to check next? The distributor is an MP distributor. Could the pickup have gone bad? I have not pulled the valve covers yet.

Thanks for any input. Now to borrow my neighbor's truck and go drink good 12 year old Cruzan Single Barrel Estate rum where Billzo's staying.

I had a similar problem and it was a broken ballast, are you still using one with your MSD.

I have an MSD iginition also. Don't use the ballast. Mine popped and stalled. Would not start. The end of the coil wire going into the distributor cap was burnt off. Replace cap and wire and it started.
Hope that helps

timing chain could have jumped....
Hope it's something simple and cheap....

Are the timing gears the old plastic over alum with
a production chain... if so you could have jumped tome.
It might start but be real lazy. Put the crank up on
0 and see where the rotor is pointed(it should be what
ever your base timing is before 0)

You should be able to check the timinig a couple of ways. If you have a "good" timing light (and I hope you haven't moved the dist) you should be able to check the timing on the starter motor. Pulling the plugs will help the starter, but if you do, you'll have to hook up the plugs to ground so the thing doesn't crossfire.

Second way is "static" just like the old VW's. Crank the engine (wrench?) until the marks come up anywhere from 10-5BTC, then check the dist/ reluctor position. You should be able to "wiggle" the advance and picture in your mind whether the reluctor/ rotor is in position. I always mark the dist. rim with a scribe line for the no1 tower. Depending on which rotation you are on, the rotor should either be on no1 or no6.

I'm betting on a timing sprocket. They aren't gears.

Hi

Thanks for the input. After dinner and some Cruzan Rum I am not as bummed, although I was looking forward to doing some cruising on St. Croix with Billzo in the RR. Anyway, to answer some questions.

The ballast resistor is still on the firewall and still used as a place for the field coil wires to connect. However, I have tried to eliminate the ballast resistor from the MSD wiring as much as possible. Primary power to the MSD is from a #10 wire direct from the battery to the MSD box. The ground wire from the MSD box is a #10 wire straight to the negative terminal on the battery.

The timing chain and gears I am not as certain about although I would be stunned if they were the nylon over aluminium. DRAM built the motor (it has exceeded my expectations) and I believe the gears are steel with a good quality chain. In addition, it just will not start now, as opposed to being lazy and off on power, which is why I am wondering about the magnetic pickup. The electrical layout has not changed for a couple of years, also.

I will do a timing check for sure, either static or with the light, that is a good baseline. I set the timing just a couple of weeks ago before going to the track. Even ran a 7.955, first time out of the 8's in the 1/8th. Not bad for a daily driver. I was at a lower RPM as compared to the track.

I guess we forgot the obvious YOU DO have spark when the engine cranks??

David, did you check the small red wire to make sure it had a constant 12 volts to it?
if it does, just follow the path downstream, so to speak.
you mentioned no spark at the plugs i think. verify spark at the spark plugs. if none, work your way back to the cap, rotor, wires. etc. it is possible the pickup went bad, but check everything else too. veryify the rotor spins when you crank the engine. verify no shorts on the pickup wires along the engine or where they pass through the firewall, etc. it's probably a simple (yet aggravating) problem. as mentioned before, a burned coil wire, etc will cause problems like that also.
as far as the timing chain goes, i believe your motor has a pro-gear timing set so i doubt that's the problem.

Hi Dan,

I have not had a chance to check spark with the engine cranking. I did check the MSD by jumping the purple and green wires and then breaking the circuit which did create a spark out of the coil wire, so I think that means there is power to the MSD box from the ignition switch (small red wire). I will still check with a multimeter. Thanks for the confirmation on the timing chain and gears, that is what I thought. I will still verify that the rotor spins. It definitely changes position under the cap but I will watch it rotate.

It sounds as if I need to start trouble shooting between the coil and plugs.

Best, Dave

Still wearing the team shirt?

Well Dram said its got a new chain in it so I would
forget the chain.... what I would look at first is
the carbon button in the center of the cap, you could
have spit it out and with a ballast it would be a
some what weak spark and not able to jump to the rotor

David,

I would also check the reluctor gap and resistance in the distributor. If the pickup inside the dist. went goofy you could have a weak spark problem similar to what you are describing.

The other thing that got me pretty good a month or two ago was a worn out ignition switch. It was intermittently providing 12V to the ign/accesories causing all sorts of strange problems.

Good luck! Sometimes it is painful to have a hotrod daily driver...DAMHIK!


PS: BE VERY CAREFUL TO KEEP YOU JUNK AWAY FROM THE FENDER WHEN CHECKING A CAPACITIVE DISCHARGE IGNITION SYSTEM FOR SPARK.

Hello Dave... Do you have an old coil sitting around?? Give it a try and see if it works? I just had a similar issue with my small block 390 with a 6AL and blaster 2 coil. I noticed the engine stall a few times and not run right and then when I went to start it, NO SPARK. A new coil got me up and running again. Give it a shot!! TBF

just wondering how the troubleshooting went today?

Hi,

Thanks for the continued input. I only just got in now, and I only had about 15-20 minutes this morning for troubleshooting before I had to head out. I believe that it is the pickup. I jumped the pickup wires at each connection (there happen to be two) and with the coil wire even close to metal an impressive spark occurred when I broke the connection. This to me says that the coil and MSD are good. I then turned the engine until the reductor was close to the pickup. I turned the key on, then, with the coil wire near ground, I twisted the distributor shaft (essentially advanced it through the range of mechanical advance, I did not loosen the hold down clamp) so that the reductor passed by the pickup. No spark. I also cranked the engine with the coil wire held near ground. No spark. I then called Rock Auto and ordered new cap, rotor (these two on principle, they are several years old) and a new pickup assembly. They should be here tomorrow or the next day and I will put them in. Unfortunately, all the new caps use aluminum terminals, at least for MP distributors.

Mr P Body, the ballast is still on the car but only as a place to attach the field coil wires for the alternator. It is not part of the ignition system. Thanks for checking as that would certainly cause problems.

Tbay Flyer, it does not seem to be the coil but we did have a coil go bad on the Land Rover once. I probably killed it in that case as I left the ignition on for two days when I accidentally bumped the switch. Wouldn't start, then new coil and vroom

it sounds like you've got it narrowed down. don't forget to use a brass feeler guage when you set the gap on the new pickup. .008" is what i set them at.

David, did you check the carbon button, as Mr. P suggested? I had one wore away to nothing, left that cap on there too long. Now I check it frequently, they start out about 1/2" long.