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Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2486234
04/21/18 11:40 PM
04/21/18 11:40 PM
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Mike P Offline OP
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Thanks for the info and link on the springs 528Dart. I happy with the springs now that I've added the leaves but if I end up doing something different down the road that sure opens up some options.


I've been working on getting the power steering pump mounted over the last couple of days. The only readily available PS pump bracket for the early hemi out there seems to be the Hot Hemi Heads one, but that is for the newer (small) GM pump with a remote reservoir. PAW used to sell a bracket for the older Saginaw pump that would have been exactly what I needed, but they have been out of business for years now. At least I've still got a copy of their old catalog with pictures so I had a starting point.

I had originally planned of just building the brackets on the car. I really didn't relish the thought of bending over the fender and radiator and getting everything aligned, drilled, and welded. My friend of mine came to my rescue however, he was kind enough to loan me an old 331 block, cart to set it on, timing cover and water pump adapters. Between that and the odds and ends I have around here I was able to mock up the short block to use to build the brackets. Sitting on a stool figuring everything out sure beats doing it on car.

MUPS by M Patterson, on Flickr



I started out with an old pump I had laying and a pretty common old SBC PS bracket.


HP1 by M Patterson, on Flickr



The modifications to the bracket and a couple of smaller support brackets weren't hard to do or complicated, but getting everything aligned took a fair amount of time and tweaking.




HP3 by M Patterson, on Flickr


Having the mockup block was a real blessing and definitely worth the time and effort to set up.



HP2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


I picked up a rebuilt pump and belt. and ended up using a different pulley than the one I started with but I finally got everything sorted out.

Bolting it all to the engine was straight forward and I'm happy with the result.......but boy I still wish I had bought one of the PAW brackets years ago when I built the engine. :LOL:


HP4 by M Patterson, on Flickr


I've run out of easy stuff so I guess next is getting the old steering gear out and fitting the 605 box.


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2486331
04/22/18 10:47 AM
04/22/18 10:47 AM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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nice job on the bracket ! up but you by now have noticed just how much time gets gobbled up keeping things "simple".
beer

Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2486418
04/22/18 02:48 PM
04/22/18 02:48 PM
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Mike P Offline OP
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Thanks.

“……but you by now have noticed just how much time gets gobbled up keeping things "simple"……”

Yeah, if I was still running the shop and this was a customers’ car after I explained what it would cost to build the bracket vice buying the Hot heads one and using a remote reservoir chances are it would have gotten the HH bracket.

The 57 has always been intended to be a keeper (at least keeping it longer than many of the other cars I’ve built). As it’s my own car I can justify spending a lot of time doing a lot of the little stuff I want(ed) to do on it.


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2489435
04/29/18 11:36 AM
04/29/18 11:36 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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I'm going to get the alignment checked on the 57 before I start on the steering box change. The shop I use can't get me in till Wednesday so with luck I'll be able to get a start on that next week.

With the car in the shop where it's handy to work on I've been taking care of some of the little issues that have turned up in the 12 years since I built the car. I figured I throw a couple of them on here in case they might help some of the other 57-8 Mopar guys.

The dash mounted rear view mirror has always been kind of useless as it was too low to see over the top of the back seat. I finally got around to building a 1" extension for that. I went rooting thru my odds and ends drawer to see what would work for the extension. I had a couple of old SBC T handle valve cover bolts sitting around that happened to be 1/4-20 which is the same thread used to screw the mirror head to the stem.

ME1 by M Patterson, on Flickr


It was pretty simple to cut the extension out of that, then drill and tread the end to make the extension.


ME2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


ME3 by M Patterson, on Flickr

After getting the mirror back in the car and actually having it useful was one of those “I should have done this years ago things” LOL


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2489438
04/29/18 11:42 AM
04/29/18 11:42 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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When I drive back to Illinois I do a lot of the driving at night. I’d already made the cross country trip in the 57 once with no issues, and about 5 years ago took it back to the Midwest to visit family again. It’s definitely a WHOO S#** moment when the headlights go out at 80 MPH on a dark interstate at 3AM. About 5 minutes later the headlights came back on then went out again about 20 minutes later and came back on in about another 5 minutes. I finally narrowed the problem down to the circuit breaker in the headlight switch cycling on and off.

The 57-58 Mopar guys are probably already aware Chrysler didn’t use a fuse box/fuses when they built the cars! Power for the accessories and lights go thru 2 internal circuit breakers inside the headlight switch. Which is why there are all the terminals on the back of the headlight switch. When I built the 57 Plymouth I did a custom wiring harness and added a fuse box (including a circuit breaker for the lights)but retained the original switch.


LS1 by M Patterson, on Flickr

I was carrying a spare switch with me and installed that to get me thru the rest of my trip, but after the experience with the original switch I had a feeling it might be a time bomb too. I had no idea why the circuit breaker was cycling; whether it was bad contacts in the switch creating resistance or the breaker just getting weak. So yesterday I decided to pull the switch and see if there was some way to bypass the circuit breakers.


I had to un-crimp the housing to get that off.


LS2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


Then split the switch to get to the contacts and circuit breakers.


LS3 by M Patterson, on Flickr


All the contacts were dirty and I did find where there had been a bit of arcing on the headlight contacts. The way the switch is built makes it pretty difficult to get to the circuit breakers which sit down in a well in the housing. There are actually 2 circuit breakers one dedicated to the headlights and the other for the rest of the lights and accessories.



LS4 by M Patterson, on Flickr



The brass contact the switch slides over is isolated from the power side with a piece of Bakelite so the power has to go thru the contact set at the bottom of the switch.


LS5 by M Patterson, on Flickr



I finally decided the best way to bypass the circuit breaker was to just fill the gap between the contact and power side of the switch with solder.



LS6 by M Patterson, on Flickr



Anyway the switch is reassembled and back in the car and I’m a lot more comfortable about driving it at night.



LS7 by M Patterson, on Flickr

Last edited by Mike P; 04/29/18 11:54 AM.

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2615251
01/31/19 08:03 PM
01/31/19 08:03 PM
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Mike P Offline OP
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Things kind of went to crap for a while since my last post on the 57. I got the front end aligned but hadn't gotten too far figuring out the PS conversion.

A while back I came across a guy who is starting to put together PS conversion kits for 57-58 Dodges and Plymouths. He's apparently using a Ford truck PS gear that mounts on the inside of the frame. He did the prototype on his personal 57 Savoy and was able to send me pictures of the setup. It moves the steering box rearward from where the manual box sits and looks like it will clear everything. The steering shaft and column needs to be shortened and a support bracket added to the lower end of the column but that's all stuff I would have needed to do anyway.

I went ahead and ordered his first kit and it should be here next week. It will be 2 or 3 months at the earliest before I can start installing it however as I'm healing up from wrist surgery but I'll post some pictures of the kit when it gets here.

Last edited by Mike P; 01/31/19 08:05 PM.

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2617069
02/04/19 10:47 PM
02/04/19 10:47 PM
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Mike P Offline OP
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UPS came by today and dropped off my PS conversion. About all I was able to do was unpack and inventory it.

PS Conversion by M Patterson, on Flickr

I'm still waiting on a PS pitman arm that's coming from a friend out in California. I glanced over the instructions and they seem pretty comprehensive.

We'll see how it goes after I'm able to get the car apart and get it installed.


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2617071
02/04/19 10:50 PM
02/04/19 10:50 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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RUNCHARGER Offline
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This will be interesting.


Sheldon
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2617112
02/04/19 11:54 PM
02/04/19 11:54 PM
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Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
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Yup!!! I'm more than interested too!!!
popcorn


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2617129
02/05/19 12:44 AM
02/05/19 12:44 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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poorboy Offline
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Do you know what PS pump this kit will need to use? And how about a ball park price tag for the "kit"?

Really looking forward to your experience with this. Gene

Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2617195
02/05/19 06:21 AM
02/05/19 06:21 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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Gene I like your sons' wagon!!

The kit will come with a Saginaw PS pump. I deleted that and the pump bracket as I already have that built and on the HEMI. He will be including hoses for the pump and gear but they are designed for a stock engine. I don't know what the routing will have to be on my combination so I elected to have him just send the fitting and I'll get the hoses fabricated locally.

The kit also requires a PS pitman arm which is longer than the manual steering arm. Looking at his pictures and the instructions I do see a tweak or 2 I may want to do but I won't know until I can actually get started on the conversion......and the Dr says that is probably a couple months down the road.

He's getting ready to start selling the kits on E bay probably later this month. I'm guessing the complete kit will go for a bit north of $1,000.....just how far north I don't know.

When I get the kit installed I'll start a separate thread on what it takes to get it in and my impression on how well it works.

Last edited by Mike P; 02/05/19 06:22 AM.

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2620230
02/12/19 12:45 PM
02/12/19 12:45 PM
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Posts: 81
Michigan
Truck Y'all ! Offline
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I am interested in learning more about this kit. Do you have a link you can share or anything?

Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2620682
02/13/19 08:05 AM
02/13/19 08:05 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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I keep waiting on him to list the kit on Ebay which should give some more information....he says sometime this month.

The only other thing I have is a picture of the complete kit he will be selling which includes the parts I had deleted from my kit.


PS kit by M Patterson, on Flickr


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2765343
04/18/20 04:36 AM
04/18/20 04:36 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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My wrist took a little longer to heal than I planned and naturally other things came up so it took till now to get back to the PS.

Getting the original gear and column out was pretty straight forward.......PIA but straight forward. Because of the design of the torsion bar suspension and size of the steering gear it's pretty much impossible to get the gear out thru the bottom of the car so the 57-61(?) Mopars have an access panel under the peddles that allows the removal of the column and gear to be removed as a unit thru the passenger compartment.

I've changed out a few of these before so there were no real surprises. I did have to remove the clutch linkage and cross shaft but I kind of expected that.

PS 2.jpg
Last edited by Mike P; 04/18/20 04:59 AM.

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2765348
04/18/20 05:14 AM
04/18/20 05:14 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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The conversion was designed for stock motor 57/58 Dodge and Plymouths and the test mule for the original kit was a Poly powered 57 Savoy with automatic. As my car is HEMI powered with a 4 speed there was some question if the kit would actually fit so I went straight to bolting the adapter plate to the steering gear and test fitting the unit using the 2 existing bolt holes......bypassing the first step in the instructions which call for drilling a 3rd in the frame for the adapter plate.

The gear HAS to go thru the access panel in the floor, then mounted from under the car.

The new steering gear cleared the exhaust manifold with a lot more clearance than the original manual steering gear. It was close to the bottom edge of the valve cover but did clear.

PS 3.jpg

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2765752
04/19/20 06:52 AM
04/19/20 06:52 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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Because the steering conversion is really designed for cars with an automatic transmission were I running an automatic (or a hydraulic throw-out bearing) at this point I could have simply finished the installation. As I'm using original 1957 clutch linkage there were some changes I needed to make to the adapter plate, cross-shaft frame bracket and cross-shaft.

I pulled the steering gear back out and unbolted it from the adapter plate. Then I bolted just the plate back to the frame drilled the 3rd hole required to finish the adapter installation.

Then came the modifications I needed to make for the clutch linkage. The major issue with the adapter plate was it would not allow the cross shaft to fit. While the plate was bolted on I marked were I needed to make my notch for the cross-shaft.

The second item was the frame cross-shaft bracket attachment. The bracket is attached by 3 bolts....two that screw into captive nuts in frame and the third one was one of the original steering gear bolts. That original steering gear bolt is the one original mounting points the new steering conversion the kit doesn't use due to steering gear interference. The design of the bracket makes that bolt kind of critical to prevent the bracket from bending/breaking. Due to the location of the steering gear on the adapter plate I couldn't simply drill thru the adapter and use a long bolt (that would have been way to simple). I ended up marking where I needed to make the hole so when the plate was removed I could finish drilling and tapping the hole for a piece of all thread when I did the final installation.

Of course the cross-shaft bracket also interfered with the new 3rd bolt and washer used for adapter bracket which required grinding a clearance notch in it.

And then finally when doing the last test fit of the plate after making the modification I found out the cross-shaft grease zerk interfered with the adapter plate requiring it to be relocated about 1-1/2" closer to the engine.

PS 4.jpg

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2765753
04/19/20 07:00 AM
04/19/20 07:00 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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In order to have access to the frame an make it easier to get to the cross-shaft bracket bolts I ended up trimming part of the inner fender out of the way.

PS 5.jpg

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2765755
04/19/20 07:08 AM
04/19/20 07:08 AM
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Mike P Offline OP
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So with the modifications made to the adapter it was time actually install the steering gear. It should be smooth sailing. Yup that's when everything turned into a low grade of crap.

Once the new steering gear and adapter were actually installed what little clearance I had between the gear and valve cover had disappeared....... probably due to the test fitting being done using only 2 of the 4 bolts that mount the adapter plate. Anyway the gear was now rubbing against the lower edge of the valve cover (which protrudes at least a 1/4 " beyond the head) and also the valve cover bolt boss. After studying the clearance issue for a bit I pulled the aluminum valve cover off and set a stock valve cover on. It has all kinds of clearance so I had a decision to make......change over to stock covers (I have a pair of chrome reproduction covers I had set aside for the Poly/Hemi build I'm slowly working on) or try to grind some clearance into the aluminum covers.


Now I really really like the way the aluminum valve covers look on the 57 Plymouth. The down side to them is they can be a pain to keep clean and they are a huge PIA to take off (which I've had to do twice over the years). To get the aluminum covers off requires draining the coolant, pulling the master cylinder, pulling the heater blower and removing the heater box. On the stock style covers it's remove the 6 nuts and pull the covers (after removing the spark plugs and tubes).

Believe it or not I really had to think about what I wanted to do. In the end going to the stock covers on the 57 won out. So I will be playing swap the valve covers. The new chrome ones went on the 57, the aluminum ones will end up on the 37 Dodge truck and the chrome ones from the 37 will be set aside for the Poly/Hemi engine build I'm working on. At least I have all the stuff on hand to do it so I don't have to wait on parts.

PS 6.jpg
Last edited by Mike P; 04/19/20 10:21 AM.

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)
Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P] #2765801
04/19/20 09:26 AM
04/19/20 09:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 247
STL ,MO
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Handygun Offline
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Gotta love those wet valve cover bolts on the Chrysler, At least there is a wide variety of stock covers, That area you are working in -steering box,T-bar,starter,ex man, on a 57-58 Ply with a Hemi is one of the worst. Always seemed there was an inordinate amount of maint. issues/grief in that cubic foot, 4 bolt manifolds exacerbated it.

Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Handygun] #2765909
04/19/20 12:36 PM
04/19/20 12:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,866
north of coder
moparx Offline
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which hold down bolt[s] is/are wet ? this is something i didn't know of.
please explain. TIA.
beer

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