520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
#2370904
09/14/17 08:07 PM
09/14/17 08:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,427 Toronto
mshred
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OP
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Toronto
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Thinking of switch to a big block and I have read and read and read....a lot of guys say things will or will not last, but I want to hear from guys who have done it or are currently doing it, not just what the word on the street is. What block, low deck or rb? Caps, girdle, hardblock- some of those, all, or nothing at all? How fast or how much power and how long did it last?
I'm not looking for a low rpm grunt motor, but something that will make power wherever it wants to make it. Looking to run atleast 11:1 compression, and good cylinder head to make it all work, packed up in an a body in front of a glide or turbo 400. I understand a stock block is on borrowed time, but I would like to know how many are doing it and how long they borrowed time for
Real world experience- good, bad or lucky is all welcome! No b.s., just experience
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2370970
09/14/17 10:32 PM
09/14/17 10:32 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,421 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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![iagree iagree](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/iagree.gif) Excessive RPM is the biggest killer. I have had my 500" RB to 6.8s in the 1/8. Been together 11 years with a couple of freshenings. Pump gas street car that gets the occasional KOS test at the local track. Both my back to back 9.70 passes pushed the 512 into the 6700rpm range. I just rebuilt it, and cap walk was very evident on the middle caps. Freshened it all up. not sure what I will do with it yet, but might end up in my Cuda if the Hemi sells.
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2370982
09/14/17 10:48 PM
09/14/17 10:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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Similar for us here downunder, have a 528 12-1 roller cam RB with 440 source crank, half fill, indy top in my 71 Barracuda full street trim just went 10.1 135 @ 3800 ft and 3750lb, 7100 rpm through traps, engine is around 5 years from fresh and lots of street miles. 547 RB 11-1 with half fill, indy top in Aussie Valiant around 3500lb best and last run 9.99 135.
I have split one block, it had the above 440source rotating assy in it but at the time we were spraying a 200 shot of gas into it running 9.2 @ 145
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2371009
09/14/17 11:44 PM
09/14/17 11:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,701 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
master
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master
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On the parachute mount
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440 +.030 over. Indy 440-1 un ported, Alum rods, light piston. Stock main caps. .660 roller cam. With two plates stacked went 9 teens at 3600lbs. Still got it
With boost, you should be able to go mid 8's or mid to low 5's in the 1/8. Boost is usually easier on the short lock than nitrous,mat least a turbo
Keep it out of detonation, use a light reciprocating assembly. Use a turbo 400 for a low Buck trans as they are pretty stout in stock form. Use an electric shifter to go right to second off the trans brake. 1.48 and 4.10 rear is a great SLR. Also using the turbo 400 with a jw bell, uses a GM style converter, which is almost always cheaper than a Chrysler converter.
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2371026
09/15/17 12:20 AM
09/15/17 12:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,427 Toronto
mshred
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Not looking to boost it at this point...all motor with some spray maybe. I didn't realize I can't turn more then 6500 thoughand how bad cap walk could be doing so, that's something that may turn me away from it all. I know the low deck is stronger and fits better in the a-body, but the 440 seems like it would accept more cubic inches. I am not opposed to a half fill and aluminum caps since I currently have a half filled SB that sees over 7k and runs quite well teasing it with small amounts of spray and a way wrong converter...but if I really have to be super cautious about pushing it then it kinda defeats the purpose of changing engines for me. I really want to move towards more cubic inches and speed up, not change over and do the same as where I already am. That said, having the same performance but on motor alone would be awesome.
I have 2 glide cores so that's probably the way I'll be going even if I don't build a BB, the t400 seems like it would be harder to fit, but I haven't looked into it enough.
I appreciate the data and input so far guys, please keep it coming along with your opinions too...after all experience is great because it teaches you, so I'm all ears to what you guys have learned through it.
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2371040
09/15/17 12:39 AM
09/15/17 12:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 202 Barboursville, VA
belvedere383
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 202
Barboursville, VA
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Mine is a 68 383 block out to 496 with the Hughes main girdle, 440 source 4.250 crank, 4.31 bore.
Indy EZ heads hand ported, solid roller cam, 12-1 compression.
Has been together for around 10 years. Best pass 6.36 @ 107 in an all steel 65 plymouth. Also still a street car so I do drive it around a decent bit on the street.
65' Belvedere
496'' Stroker Indy Heads
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2371062
09/15/17 01:18 AM
09/15/17 01:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352
Bend,OR USA
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I've built several 518 C.I. 400 blocks(4.375x4.300 stroke) and one 526 C.I.(4.380x4.375 stroke) 440 stock block, all had ductile iron main caps and ARP main studs. The 526 was built before I knew how thin the stock RB block main webs are ![realcrazy realcrazy](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/realcrazy.gif) I will never build another stock 440 block with any longer stroke than 4.25 and only if it is a pump gas street motor that won't be ran above 7000 RPM ![twocents twocents](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/twocents.gif) I will limit the power with the heads and cam. On building a stock block race motor I would start with a 400 block that sonic tests okay first and then add good main caps and studs and good heads ![up up](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/thumbs_up.gif) That is for a build that will make near 900 HP on race gas and be shifted before 7800 RPM ![twocents twocents](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/twocents.gif) Any more power or RPM above those numbers add a good after market race block ![twocents twocents](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/twocents.gif) My next race motor built for me will have a Koleno block with 4.500 bore and a old 4.250 stroke Bryant top fuel crank(full counter weights ![up up](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/thumbs_up.gif) ) offset ground to BB Chevy rod journal sizes and increased the stroke to 4.375. B1-MC heads with titianum valves and custom ground solid roller lifter cam shooting for 8500+ RPM Hopefully it will make north of 1100 HP N/A on race gas or E85
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/15/17 01:20 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2371067
09/15/17 01:23 AM
09/15/17 01:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,885 Pattison Texas
CSK
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master
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Pattison Texas
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I wish I would have bought a aluminum low deck block for my 512 street car, I want to boost it but don't want block carnage.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: FastmOp]
#2371099
09/15/17 03:40 AM
09/15/17 03:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,885 Pattison Texas
CSK
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Pattison Texas
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I put 30 psi on a stock block lol AWESOME!! was it your daily driver in a 4100 lb pig ![smile smile](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/smile.gif) & for how long ?
Last edited by csk; 09/15/17 03:41 AM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: DoubleD]
#2371157
09/15/17 12:07 PM
09/15/17 12:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
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Mine was only 500 cubic inches but it made it 275 passes running 8.60's in my daytona without any tricks. When I took it apart it was cracked up through the mains. Was still running strong when I took it apart for a freshen job and found the crack. If I ever built one again with a stock block (which I never will) it would have aluminum main caps.Now if I only wanted it to run mid 9's or slower no-adder I would do another stock block.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: DoubleD]
#2372326
09/17/17 06:50 PM
09/17/17 06:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,427 Toronto
mshred
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Toronto
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Stock block with a big arm is a gamble - sometimes it works good and lasts a long time. I think the key is a light weight - well balanced rotating assembly (less than 2200 grams) good fasteners everywhere - aluminum main caps - keep the compression below 13-1 and don't twist above 7000 RPM. But in the end it is a gamble - I have seen many stock blocks for no reason crack clear up through the mains and split the block in two. This is what it's looking like, a gamble...I understand anything stock block is a chance for things to go sour, but it almost seems like the small blocks can actually take more power....or maybe there are just more BB stock block carnage stories.
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2372573
09/18/17 09:22 AM
09/18/17 09:22 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 112 Mopar
Jason B
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member
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Posts: 112
Mopar
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Well I dont have over 500" but it just depends on how fast you want to go. I currently have a 451" 440 with aluminum Edelbrock victors unported , super Victor intake, Holley HP 950, .590 flat tappet cam, steel crank and Eagle H beam rods in a 3200# Challenger that has been 10.70s. Just pulled it out to freshen up haven't had any issues been together for years but I don't get to drive it as offen as I'd like probably has done more sitting than driving over the years but so far been a great combo.
Probably going to end up selling it when it gets out of the machine shop if anyone is interested... probably gonna jump ship and go Gen 3
Last edited by Jason B; 09/18/17 09:23 AM.
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2372574
09/18/17 09:45 AM
09/18/17 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,031 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I built a 535, which is 4.50 stroke 4.350 bore 440 block. It lasted four years till the crank broke. I did not rev it high though, 6,200 to 6400 max. One VERY good thing you can do would be to buy a center weighted crank, then add some of the better bandaids like studs, aluminum caps, etc. A center weighted crank puts the balance weights where it is best, at the opposing forces, not making the block carry the loads to other bearings. I run one, and saw improvements in cap walk problems .
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2372715
09/18/17 02:04 PM
09/18/17 02:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,613 Deerfield, Ohio
70dusterjohn
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,613
Deerfield, Ohio
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We have had ours together for 10 plus years, been as fast as 8.98 with a 200 shot. Without it runs 9.80s all day in a 3,300lb duster without me .. plus about 2,000 miles a year on the street. I used good fasteners good caps and a girdle. It's a 400 base -1 heads small roller, single 4 with a dommy .. haven't had any cap walk problems and I shift it at 6,800 go through the lights at about 6,200 with the 4.30. It is a low comp though at 11 to 1 .. I have freshened it up twice in that time .. go big block you'll love it .. don't get me wrong we run a 340 in the wife's car and it runs good but leaves me wanting more .. her car runs 10.40s and is street driven 67 barracuda.... Good luck with whatever you decide 👍🏻
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2373025
09/18/17 11:07 PM
09/18/17 11:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,427 Toronto
mshred
OP
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OP
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Toronto
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I built a 535, which is 4.50 stroke 4.350 bore 440 block. It lasted four years till the crank broke. I did not rev it high though, 6,200 to 6400 max. One VERY good thing you can do would be to buy a center weighted crank, then add some of the better bandaids like studs, aluminum caps, etc. A center weighted crank puts the balance weights where it is best, at the opposing forces, not making the block carry the loads to other bearings. I run one, and saw improvements in cap walk problems . Which manufacturers make a centre weighted crank for this application? Also, did you have to run an external pickup with that stroke? We have had ours together for 10 plus years, been as fast as 8.98 with a 200 shot. Without it runs 9.80s all day in a 3,300lb duster without me .. plus about 2,000 miles a year on the street. I used good fasteners good caps and a girdle. It's a 400 base -1 heads small roller, single 4 with a dommy .. haven't had any cap walk problems and I shift it at 6,800 go through the lights at about 6,200 with the 4.30. It is a low comp though at 11 to 1 .. I have freshened it up twice in that time .. go big block you'll love it .. don't get me wrong we run a 340 in the wife's car and it runs good but leaves me wanting more .. her car runs 10.40s and is street driven 67 barracuda.... Good luck with whatever you decide 👍🏻 I have no doubt I'd love the torque lol. What size is your engine and whose rotating assembly in it? Thanks for the input! Build a 470 or 511 with a MW port head, .700+ lift cam and run 8's on a 200 shot. Pretty simple combo if the block doesn't split lol. It may sound stupid, but I want atleast 500"+ if I'm going big block....the part about the block not splitting would be great if it was for certain lol
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2373054
09/19/17 12:15 AM
09/19/17 12:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,715 Wichita
GY3
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Wichita
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Then you just tell everyone it's Cordoba 400 with a 150 shot and let the good times roll.
Mine is an RV 440 with purple shaft... ![laugh2 laugh2](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/laugh2.gif)
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2373075
09/19/17 12:43 AM
09/19/17 12:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,427 Toronto
mshred
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OP
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4.375"x4.25" combo with a 175 shot made 950hp@6000rpm, shut off 1000 rpm below peak hp.
That's 511" of pump gas friendly street motor with less than a .750 lift cam. I'm sure you could do more with a dominator (we used a 4150), larger n20 grind cam (mine was spec'd for the indy t-ram @ .740 gross lift), more compression, etc.
Then you just tell everyone it's Cordoba 400 with a 150 shot and let the good times roll.
Any more details on this combo? What did it run? Heads, compression? I like your thinking lol
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2373178
09/19/17 09:42 AM
09/19/17 09:42 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,613 Deerfield, Ohio
70dusterjohn
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,613
Deerfield, Ohio
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It's an eagle crank and rods bought from Todd at marsh performance along with the Ross pistol s, he did the work and I slipped it together.. great guy to deal with .. mine is only 500 inches
Last edited by 70dusterjohn; 09/19/17 09:43 AM.
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Re: 520" and bigger stock block guys step inside
[Re: mshred]
#2373216
09/19/17 11:18 AM
09/19/17 11:18 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Not that large, but my 500" engine uses the early 230 "B" low deck block and the 4.15" stroker kit (really light pistons) 12.4:1 compression. Hughes CNC ported Max wedge Victor heads, and 0.720" lift cam. Car is slow, too much power for the stock suspension. It has the BCR aluminum main caps and 1/2" girdle, but no block fill, and the #8 cylinder was sleeved.
The cost of the main caps/girdle was $800 plus machine work, which varied quite a bit when I called different places. I think machine work may have been around $500?, and I had some quotes over $800. So just that upgrade costs me $1300 on top of the cost of the block and other machine work. This made me start to look at the cost difference of the aftermarket blocks, but I hear they are hard to come by now?
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