Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: Mattax]
#2367265
09/08/17 12:26 AM
09/08/17 12:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584 MD
p d'ro
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
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Its not good. Its not a good design. It may or may not be the part of the reason for the problem. After solving the problem, then fix the design. That might mean not using the ammeter, but even so, it must be done right or the problems remain. I Ssume the prior owner set up the post as he installed the stereo system n the glove box. Do you have any idea what car this post part is from?
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: p d'ro]
#2367318
09/08/17 02:49 AM
09/08/17 02:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908 Nebraska
4406bbl
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
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I don't think you can remove those wires in the bulkhead by depressing plastic and wiggling. I have always had to insert a small thin blade, right where the little notch is in the plastic to depress the copper tang on the female wire end, the male connectors require a squeeze to remove them. Once you get them out you will see that a cheap crimp tool will do you no good, as they are made for the cheap yellow, red, blue crimps, not factory stuff. You can make a nice crimper out off a cheap pair of pliers drilled to make it round, and finish it off with a dull chistle, right in the groove to tighten it up. If anybody knows of a correct tool for mopar ends im all ears. So make your own tool or solder. A crimp made in a vise, or with a hammer is way tighter than anything you will do with crimp pliers, no safety issue there.
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: 4406bbl]
#2367362
09/08/17 10:20 AM
09/08/17 10:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584 MD
p d'ro
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
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I don't think you can remove those wires in the bulkhead by depressing plastic and wiggling. I have always had to insert a small thin blade, right where the little notch is in the plastic to depress the copper tang on the female wire end, the male connectors require a squeeze to remove them. Once you get them out you will see that a cheap crimp tool will do you no good, as they are made for the cheap yellow, red, blue crimps, not factory stuff. You can make a nice crimper out off a cheap pair of pliers drilled to make it round, and finish it off with a dull chistle, right in the groove to tighten it up. If anybody knows of a correct tool for mopar ends im all ears. So make your own tool or solder. A crimp made in a vise, or with a hammer is way tighter than anything you will do with crimp pliers, no safety issue there. So I am asking how to remove the entire row of connectors so I can look inside at the male and female connectors. The large plastic piece (three of them) that are inserted into the bulkhead.
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: p d'ro]
#2367380
09/08/17 11:17 AM
09/08/17 11:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109
Valencia, España
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damn! to much to say LOL... I'll try to grabb the essentials of this without touch every post a lot I'm not a Baseball big fan however I know who are the Aparicio's dinasty LOL. I'm more FOOTBALL fan ( the real one not the eggshaped ball one you play LOL ) and being my family from Spain, is kinda logic . 1... remove the bulkhead conectors is fairly tricky but still easy. Playing with that won't damage anything. Just need to pry up the side retentions while pulling out the conector once at a time. just do it and check the conditions... if something comes wrong will mean was to fail sooner or later so better fix it now before a biggest and expensive fail. Play with these plugs won't mean you are dealing with any terminal. 2... why are you worrying at this moment for a crimping tool and terminals if we don't know if you actually will need them ? although is not something hard to get, a nice one, that's not the ACTUAL deal on this... yet. Nice tools and correct terminals same as replacement plugs are around easy to get... is just about the money and click on buy... no need anything to be analized on this... yet. 3... the only way to know what is that or the other wire is trace it from end to end. In fact the only way to know what you got is dissasemblying. If you run the straight wire from alt to starter relay post you are bypassing ammeter and releasing loads from some spots but not fixiong actually anything. You are hidding the "fail" or whatever is wrong ( if there is really something wrong ). So you will be cheating yourself. Is like put a 150 speedo face decal over a 120 miles speedo to be able to say you are running at 75 MPH where you are really still at 60 MPH 4... -I hate MADelectrical mods and statements... already pm'd you about that and why. Wrong statements from them and you haven't got burnt anything yet to drill out the bulkhead and heavily modify anything. -Stock system can be run safelly with some touchs here and there, some small upgrades and still will work everything as factory designed... they were just wrong on the rates handled ( alt and terminals ) but not on the main design. Is just about IF YOU want to run your car like factory designed it. 5... need to note EVEN WITH A HIGHER OPUTPUT ALT, the stock system EVEN on bulkhead conections and not being bypassed up to the amm everything will be safe, at least safer than with the low output iddle alt. This sounds contradictory, yes, BUT a stock car on regular conditions road ( not rain, no AC and still at nights ) won't suck more than 25 amps. That load is able to be handled by the packard terminals easily. The problem is when the alt is not able to give this juice at iddle ( an oldie stock alt 35-40 amps rated barelly gives 15-20 amps iddling ). SO, when you give gas, the alt will gives what the batt lost on the previous stage. This will raise the ammeter up allmost to the max reading, some to still feed the car demands, some to refill the batt. IF you have an alt to give the car demand between 25-30 amps at iddle ( once again on regular basic car and road driving conditions ), the batt will never suck the load to be recharged, so EVEN THE STOCK packard terminals are able to handle this, BUT JUST with an upgraded alt feeding at iddle. Of course if you beging to increase the car demand, with wipers, heater or AC ( mostly due the blower, not the compressor ), this demand will be higher, and is when packard terminals becomes on a weak spot. Also when the batt got discharged, SO that's the reason to save the packard terminals setup with the bulkhead parallel path OR full bypass. And getting wipers and Blower working an alt able to source up to 45-50 amps at iddle is a must. That's why thats my advice on this. We need an alt able to source EVERYTHING on car if is required at some point. Sometimes a max wiper speed and max blower speed with headligths sucks up to 60 amps!!!! but normally if its raining dog and cats you won't actually need max speed blower on AC, because it should be a bit cold outside. Low speeds uses to be enough to save from fogging the windshield and rest of glasses, depending how many persons are in cabin
Last edited by NachoRT74; 09/08/17 11:44 AM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: 4406bbl]
#2367410
09/08/17 12:27 PM
09/08/17 12:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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If anybody knows of a correct tool for mopar ends im all ears. I mentioned a good resource for correct tools and supplies in the Fried thread, its on the Civilian Jeep Forum Basic Wiring 101. P d'ro started this discussion in the other thread, so he's seen that. In his situation, he has no tools or shop, and he needs to minimize on that. The one the tool that will always be good for P d'ro to have around is a multi-meter. p d'ro - The keys to the answering your questions are really in your hands now. You have to identify the wires and where they go and come. Write it down, draw it out, and compare with the factory. Then see what has been changed and how that effects current flow. Then with both a voltmeter (multimeter) and the ammeter, it will be fairly easy to collect the information that will reveal why ammeter follows the rpm. See my previous post about what may be wrong and how to figure it out.
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: p d'ro]
#2367412
09/08/17 12:38 PM
09/08/17 12:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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I Ssume the prior owner set up the post as he installed the stereo system n the glove box. Do you have any idea what car this post part is from? LOL! I can not see your car! But my point is not that this "post" is a bad design. There are many good ways to make a connection through sheet metal wall. My point is the circuit is badly designed. Try to understand what is here. Start with the link with Nacho's drawings. Then make your own drawings. Use one of ours as a start if that is easier.
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: Mattax]
#2367413
09/08/17 12:44 PM
09/08/17 12:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584 MD
p d'ro
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
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If anybody knows of a correct tool for mopar ends im all ears. I mentioned a good resource for correct tools and supplies in the Fried thread, its on the Civilian Jeep Forum Basic Wiring 101. P d'ro started this discussion in the other thread, so he's seen that. In his situation, he has no tools or shop, and he needs to minimize on that. The one the tool that will always be good for P d'ro to have around is a multi-meter. p d'ro - The keys to the answering your questions are really in your hands now. You have to identify the wires and where they go and come. Write it down, draw it out, and compare with the factory. Then see what has been changed and how that effects current flow. Then with both a voltmeter (multimeter) and the ammeter, it will be fairly easy to collect the information that will reveal why ammeter follows the rpm. See my previous post about what may be wrong and how to figure it out. I agree with everything posted by Nacho and Mattax and learned alot in the other thread. I just have to figure out how the prior owner wired this. He was a capable mechanic and machinist who did some very nice work on this car before I got it, and it has been running well for 10 years before my VR went and now seem to be charging all the time. I will draw out what I have, but there are is at least one bat + that goes thru firewall and disappears under dash that I can't trace. My main issue now is pulling wires off of bulkhead without breaking anything and figuring out what my firewall connection is. Again, does anyone have this firewall connection that I pictured?
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: Mattax]
#2367420
09/08/17 01:14 PM
09/08/17 01:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 674 Kennewick, Wa.
71vert340
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 674
Kennewick, Wa.
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Mattax, thanks for the reply. In my post, I said "off the other relay post" and should have said off the same relay post. Here's a photo of what I have. The red wire on the right goes to the battery. Originally it had a standard, cheap crimp terminal on the end. I crimped/soldered on a copper one and used heat shrink. The pink (red) fusible link on the left bypasses the bulkhead connector and goes through cowl right to ammeter. The blue/green fusible link on left is crimp/solder connected to the original, existing 10 gauge red wire which runs through the bulkhead connector. The original red wire to the ammeter which came through the bulkhead connector was disconnected, taped off. I was going to hook the original red wire through bulkhead block back up to ammeter and pull the bypass red wire out but now it sounds like I should leave the bypass one as I bought the car. Thoughts. Terry
Last edited by 71vert340; 09/08/17 01:17 PM.
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: p d'ro]
#2367421
09/08/17 01:14 PM
09/08/17 01:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109
Valencia, España
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My main issue now is pulling wires off of bulkhead without breaking anything and figuring out what my firewall connection is. Again, does anyone have this firewall connection that I pictured?
yes, all A bodies and up to 70 B bodies uses same firewall setup. Is just about pry up a bit the side latches on every conector. Pry up one, pull it slightly to release it from that latch, then the same to the other one and VOILA! and if get broken ( tipicall latches get broken on original old 40 years brittle conectors ), you can get every plastic conector in $15 rate. Yes I know is not about spend money without need for that, but if needed, the parts are there available.
Last edited by NachoRT74; 09/08/17 01:36 PM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2367434
09/08/17 01:45 PM
09/08/17 01:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Mattax good info. Good stuff Nacho, however! if the ball ain't oblong then it ain't a football
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: 71vert340]
#2367437
09/08/17 01:46 PM
09/08/17 01:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109
Valencia, España
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Mattax, thanks for the reply. In my post, I said "off the other relay post" and should have said off the same relay post. Here's a photo of what I have. The red wire on the right goes to the battery. Originally it had a standard, cheap crimp terminal on the end. I crimped/soldered on a copper one and used heat shrink. The pink (red) fusible link on the left bypasses the bulkhead connector and goes through cowl right to ammeter. The blue/green fusible link on left is crimp/solder connected to the original, existing 10 gauge red wire which runs through the bulkhead connector. The original red wire to the ammeter which came through the bulkhead connector was disconnected, taped off. I was going to hook the original red wire through bulkhead block back up to ammeter and pull the bypass red wire out but now it sounds like I should leave the bypass one as I bought the car. Thoughts. Terry sorry I missed your posts you need just to run a straight wire between amm and alt same as you did on the red wire and you are done. Use the same provision you run the wire between starter relay and ammeter. Actally the alt side gets more stress than the batt wire. You saved just the 30% of the problem You can reinstall or not the original red wire 12 gauge to ammeter and will give you more load headroom on wiring, although the 10 gauge wire bypass should be enough, specially if not AC. HOWEVER if you decide to get back the original wire up to ammeter will run both in just one fuselink. Could splice both red wires on engine bay side into one fuse link, 14 gauge. If you decide not to hook it back, simply remove the blue 16 gauge fuse link from starter relay and from the harness red wire and done. No need for that fuse link there anymore In my car has being running dual fuse link like you have at this moment, but thats not healthy in case of a short.
Last edited by NachoRT74; 09/08/17 01:48 PM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: p d'ro]
#2367462
09/08/17 02:20 PM
09/08/17 02:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,109
Valencia, España
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I have seen 3 fuselinks setups, but none being parallel. They use to be to the shunted systems on laters cars.
1 for the inner splice, one for the starter relay and the other one to... I can't recall. LOL. I have diagrams around from te Haynes manual
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Alt bat to Starter bat bypass wiring
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2367491
09/08/17 03:06 PM
09/08/17 03:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584 MD
p d'ro
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
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My main issue now is pulling wires off of bulkhead without breaking anything and figuring out what my firewall connection is. Again, does anyone have this firewall connection that I pictured?
yes, all A bodies and up to 70 B bodies uses same firewall setup. Is just about pry up a bit the side latches on every conector. Pry up one, pull it slightly to release it from that latch, then the same to the other one and VOILA! and if get broken ( tipicall latches get broken on original old 40 years brittle conectors ), you can get every plastic conector in $15 rate. Yes I know is not about spend money without need for that, but if needed, the parts are there available. Ok. It looks Like my firewall post that I shared an image of is just like the one pictured above. If it is a stock 70 Set up i will just leave it even though my car is relatively correct under the hood.
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