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1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket #2365263
09/04/17 03:57 PM
09/04/17 03:57 PM
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Dry Heat AZ
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It appears I've struck out on another forum, so here goes.

So years back when I disassembled my AAR rear valence I remember saying to myself "What jackass was fiddling around back here and stuck these cruddy oval head sheetmetal screws and washers in here to attach the rear valence", but I bagged them and stuck them on a shelf for later investigation.

Fast forward a couple years, OK 8, and while I'm able to find very little on the topic I have managed to find a few threads with cryptic writings that mention these.

So what I found on mine was a #8 x 1 1/4" chrome plated sheetmetal screw with a #8 washer (finish undetermined at the moment, but it was black in color after doing a light cleaning, I may have incorrectly assumed black chromate)

When I first looked at the installation I figured it must be a machined thread on the attached rectangular insert thats welded to the stone deflector brackets, and after trying various threads on all 4 locations none could be threaded. Much to my surprise the sheet screw that was originally installed was a perfect match on all 4 locations, and I don't mean a match like someone stuffed a sheetmetal screw into a machine thread.

Then I managed to stumbled upon an old thread here where a few folks mention the exact same setup as mine, #8 chrome sheet screw and a loose washer, even posted a picture! The screw was a ringer for mine but the washer pictured was just a bit thicker, but appeared to be about the same dia.

So my question(s) are;
Was this an early 1970 thing only?
Maybe just a parts shortage on the AAR line?
Any idea when this setup was replaced for a more favorable machine head/threaded bolt?
I'm 100% positive the screw is chrome plated and cleaned up very well, any idea what the washer plating was?

I had earlier mentioned mine was black after a light cleaning but in hind sight believe it was black due to the bright zinc coating giving it up with the dissimilar metal, largely because I can't imagine Ma MOPAR chroming screws and placing a black or phosphated washer beneath it.

I did manage to find this bit of support from the Gibson/Badalson parts listing;

NEW! And never before available, CORRECT 70 e-body upper (rear) valence mounting kit. Authentic small head oval Phillips screws with loose washer. Kit contans 4 screws, 4 washers, 4 U-nuts; this is the mounting hardware for across the top of the valence. (Unsure why the 4 U-nuts, only need two, the other two in this kit would have the welded rectangular nut on the back of the bracket)

and of course you would need these also;

70 E-Body bottom valence screws. 2 original phillips head screws for
bottom of valence at frame support straps
(and here he doesn't mention the loose washers)

Any support of finds or comments appreciated.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2365443
09/04/17 09:29 PM
09/04/17 09:29 PM
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Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA Offline
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My T/A had them & I have seen them on several other 1970 E-bodies too.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: Alaskan_TA] #2365471
09/04/17 10:20 PM
09/04/17 10:20 PM
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EL5 71 Offline
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Saved these with my AAR's original rear valance. 4 across the top behind the rear bumper and 2 on the bottom of it.

IMG_20170904_200459.jpgIMG_20170904_200714_1.jpg
Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2365502
09/04/17 11:03 PM
09/04/17 11:03 PM
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Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2365515
09/04/17 11:29 PM
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Thanks guys, exactly what I was looking for with one open question, what is the washer finish supposed to be?

In the photo above they appear to have paint on them, mine did not, and unless I get information to the contrary I'll go bright zinc and figure I made a mis read when I first pulled them.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2365524
09/04/17 11:44 PM
09/04/17 11:44 PM
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Alaskan_TA Offline
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They were not body color.

Here is a closeup, same exact application but a different screw type.

1970 ta rear valence screw washer combo w.jpg
Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: Alaskan_TA] #2365534
09/05/17 12:00 AM
09/05/17 12:00 AM
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EL5 71 Offline
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I agree with Barry. My AAR was repainted red once in the 80's and the rear valance hardware got painted with it as it wasn't removed. I've looked very closely at the little washers and it appears they were not chrome plated or zinc plated. They have rust and paint overspray on the one side and they look black or grey phoshpate on the other. Some rust too.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2365549
09/05/17 12:22 AM
09/05/17 12:22 AM
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Black or grey phosphate would rust almost immediately in this location, black chromate would do much better but difficult to believe Chrysler would use a chrome screw and a black washer. I'm still of the belief a bright zinc washer would look best with the chrome screw as it left the factory. If it corroded a year or two later, not a factory issue. That close up Barry shows is really supportive of the idea but that screw and washer don't appear to be the same as shown by EL5 71, which look just like what I found on mine

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2365567
09/05/17 12:43 AM
09/05/17 12:43 AM
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I said a different screw type, the chrome screws were also used.

The washers did rust quick which would be common to black phosphate.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: Alaskan_TA] #2365582
09/05/17 01:14 AM
09/05/17 01:14 AM
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I have to say that the rear valance on our Cudas was not likely an area of great concern for which washers get used. Maybe they ran out of the proper harware they were gonna use and just made up what they could to keep things moving. Who knows? These machines were built by people during a time when quality control meant something different than what it means today. My AAR had it's fender tags screwed to the apron in the more forward position instead of the more commonly seen area. Door hinge hardware was mismatched and more oddities that I can't think of at the moment.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2365605
09/05/17 02:05 AM
09/05/17 02:05 AM
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Truthfully, mine were in such poor shape it was difficult to say what finish for sure.
Appreciate the help guys, if anyone ever turns up with good samples I'd appreciate hearing what's found.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2366580
09/06/17 07:38 PM
09/06/17 07:38 PM
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Check out Dave Wise's book on E-body Fasteners. He has pictures of the type of fastener that SHOULD have been used for that application. My AAR had the fastener with the machine thread that matched the machine thread in the square valance nut on the bracket. I've seen some original AAR's and other E-bodies with the chrome sheet metal screw "forced" into the machine screw nut but really don't think Chrysler would have installed a square machine nut in the bracket only to use a sheet metal screw. It is possible that they came both ways. Probably what happened is the line worker had easier access to particular fastener at the time the car came by. If he had easier access to a chrome sheet metal screw (and he was a little bit lazy) the he just "zipped" that in rather than look for the correct machine screw fastener. Like it was said earlier, the quality control wasn't the best back then and this was more or less on the underside of the car, so who cared, they didn't know that we would be analysing their work 47 years later.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2366585
09/06/17 07:48 PM
09/06/17 07:48 PM
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The problem with just about any book is that they can not cover every possible variable.

None of these cars were ever built exactly the same.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: AAR#2] #2366730
09/07/17 12:29 AM
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I have to believe it more common than you may think, particularly when Gibson/Badalson are offering this as the "Correct" fasteners for 1970. Of course couple that with many that have come across this exact setup and it smells of more than a single rogue line worker.

BTW, I finished a set of washers in zinc phosphate today and have decided to use those unless someone can confirm they were a different finish

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: Alaskan_TA] #2366799
09/07/17 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted By Alaskan_TA
The problem with just about any book is that they can not cover every possible variable.

None of these cars were ever built exactly the same.


Exactly.

It varied by factory.

It could also vary because of a deviation being written for whatever reason.

I highly doubt it was a rogue factory workers. Most workers would rather stop the line and drag an engineer down to the line to write a deviation and get a different part.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: Morty426] #2369768
09/12/17 11:35 PM
09/12/17 11:35 PM
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Wrong.. if I stopped the line I would have 5 supervisors at my job in 60 seconds.

Re: 1970 Cuda (AAR) Rear Valence Stone Deflector Support Bracket [Re: Bill1234] #2369799
09/13/17 12:22 AM
09/13/17 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted By Bill1234
Wrong.. if I stopped the line I would have 5 supervisors at my job in 60 seconds.


Today or 47 years ago?

Big difference.







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