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Charcoal Canister Issue #2362797
08/31/17 12:14 PM
08/31/17 12:14 PM
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Minnesota
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426Wish Offline OP
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426Wish  Offline OP
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Hello,

Can the charcoal from the charcoal canister be sucked into the engine if the vacuum lines were hooked up wrong or the canister fails?

Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: 426Wish] #2362803
08/31/17 12:25 PM
08/31/17 12:25 PM
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Supercuda Offline
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Yep, had it happen on my 72 Swinger years ago due to failure.



They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: Supercuda] #2362811
08/31/17 12:49 PM
08/31/17 12:49 PM
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Minnesota
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426Wish Offline OP
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Did the charcoal destroy your engine?

Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: 426Wish] #2362815
08/31/17 12:50 PM
08/31/17 12:50 PM
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Iowa
burdar Offline
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I've never cut one completely open to see all the inner workings. I know the charcoal can fall out over time and people have replace it with new charcoal. There is some type of manifold built-in to the top of them. I would think that wouldn't let the charcoal be sucked up into the engine but maybe not?

Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: 426Wish] #2362819
08/31/17 01:00 PM
08/31/17 01:00 PM
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Supercuda Offline
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No, it didn't destroy my engine, the stiff is fairly fine and easily crushed.

Whatever membrane/filter that lets the fuel vapors thru and kept the charcoal in place had failed and allowed the granules of charcoal to be sucked into the carb.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: burdar] #2362820
08/31/17 01:01 PM
08/31/17 01:01 PM
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Colleyville
3hundred Offline
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Originally Posted By burdar
I would think that wouldn't let the charcoal be sucked up into the engine but maybe not?


I've seen them fail, charcoal "pellets" wind up in the float bowl, they're just the right size to block the main jets in a Holley. "Southern" solution, install a cheap fuel filter screen in the line to the carb.

Robert


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: 426Wish] #2362853
08/31/17 02:08 PM
08/31/17 02:08 PM
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Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
top fuel
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Pretty much as been described, the big issue is when the foam filter at the top starts to decay. Depending on how the system is set up, something else may be failing that encourages the charcoal to migrate to the carb bowl, or I suppose the fuel tank.

One of those is the breakdown of the charcoal into fine dust. Another can be the valve seal in the carb vent line to the charcoal cannister. That's going to vary depending on the setup. But anytime the bowl's pressure is a little less than the pressure in the charcoal cannister, stuffs going to migrate toward the bowl.

I ended up rebuilding both the canister and the solenoid operated valve on my waggy.
Where's this dirt coming from?

and my Vapor Canister Rebuild How-to in the IFSJA archives may give you a sense of what may be involved for yours.

Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: Mattax] #2362856
08/31/17 02:13 PM
08/31/17 02:13 PM
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Minnesota
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426Wish Offline OP
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Thanks guys! What would happen if I kept the canister and emptied all of the charcoal? The system should still work the same. Correct?

Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: 426Wish] #2362860
08/31/17 02:22 PM
08/31/17 02:22 PM
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Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
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If your going to the trouble of opening it up, you might as well throw a bag of fresh charcoal in along with some new filter foam.

Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: 426Wish] #2362866
08/31/17 02:29 PM
08/31/17 02:29 PM
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dogdays Offline
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Charcoal - mostly carbon with a little ash from the original material that is used as the base for the charcoal. It makes no sense to worry about less than a quart of the stuff that is mostly carbon and may even get burned in the combustion process.

I believe that the material in the canisters is actually activated charcoal, that's charcoal that has been altered by a heating process that expands the chunks and increases the surface area greatly. In the canister the activated charcoal adsorbs the fuel molecules so they don't escape to the atmosphere. When the engine is running and mets certain conditions, air is drawn through the canister and carries it into the engine's intake tract, and it is burned as part of the regular combustion process.

If you walk through a parking lot on a hot summer day you will notice that very few have a gasoline smell around them. Those that do have had their systems modified or removed, or are old enough that it wasn't required by the EPA. I prefer not having to deal with gasoline vapors except when I want to, therefore I am in favor of evaporative emission controls. They do not affect performance.

You can buy activated charcoal at Walmart in the pet section. I'd suggest that the foam air filter from a late Briggs and Stratton engine would work to keep the charcoal in the canister. Unfortunately most canisters are somewhat hard to get into. Replacements, if you could find one, are usually expensive.

R.

Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: 426Wish] #2363092
08/31/17 10:26 PM
08/31/17 10:26 PM
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Originally Posted By 426Wish
Thanks guys! What would happen if I kept the canister and emptied all of the charcoal? The system should still work the same. Correct?



No as the charcoal catches and stores the gas fumes in the charcoal. Most back in the 70's that used carbs had a type of purge valve on top of them that normally have a manifold vacum line to the valve on top that was normally closed. Then it had another line that was ported vacum and did not get vacum until you stepped on the throttle so far and then the ported vacum would open the valve on top the canister and the manifold vacum would then purge the fumes out of the charcoal canister and burn them in the eng. Most usually have a filter on the bottom because the air has to flow through them so the manifold vacum can suck(purge) the gas fumes out of it into the eng. If you took the charcoal out it would just let the gas fumes go right out of the canister into the air like any of the older cars with no evap system. Most muscle cars of the 60's did not have any evap system and just vented the gas fumes on hot days to outside air. Newer fuel injected cars us solenoids controlled by PCM's to opperate and purge the canisters. You dont want it to purge at idle as then it would be to rich at times when at idle. So they purge when stepping on the gas driving down the road so you dont notice it while driving. Ron

Re: Charcoal Canister Issue [Re: 426Wish] #2363169
09/01/17 12:13 AM
09/01/17 12:13 AM
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Maine
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jerseybud Offline
mopar
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Pretty sure Chrysler had a TSB for this in the early 80s. My dads 83 w150 and my grandfathers K care both did it.

The fix was to install the metal canister fuel filters in the lines, like was already said.







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