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Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368387
09/10/17 05:07 PM
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Made the new hole for the roll pin and filed it out and it fit perfectly and ended up fitting real nice on the shaft, I really hope cw was the right direction to go inn cause of how perfect this turned out.
I'm installing the distributor back into the engine now and I'll report back with the findings after I hook up the timing light and watch the rotor.

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368399
09/10/17 05:32 PM
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So going cw from the original hole made it worse, I think that's the wrong way, cause it instantly started backfiring out the exhaust and wasn't happy about running.
So now I'm pulling it back out and am going to make a new hole ccw from the original hole.

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368406
09/10/17 05:48 PM
09/10/17 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted By pjc360
So going cw from the original hole made it worse, I think that's the wrong way, cause it instantly started backfiring out the exhaust and wasn't happy about running.
So now I'm pulling it back out and am going to make a new hole ccw from the original hole.


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Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368423
09/10/17 07:23 PM
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Ccw from the original hole is correct, I got my timing set and now I'm throwing some pants on to lean over the engine and watch the rotor. I watch the rotor with just mechanical timing set at 16 degrees and the rotor was slightly ahead of the cap terminal so with vacuum advance hooked up it should pull it back directly under the cap terminal.

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368430
09/10/17 07:47 PM
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So the hole I did moved the rotor forward that's for sure, but I think I did it a little to far forward,
So with one of the reluctors I bought I'm going to do a new hole a little closer to the original hole and try it again.
It sounds smother while idling, but I brought it up to around 2500 rpm and it was still Miss firing but it wasn't as severe as it was before relocating the reluctor.
So I think I'm a little too far forwards
I think I moved the rotor forward about half which would be 22.5 degrees and I think the sweet spot is gonna end up being 15 degrees like rapid Robert had guessed.

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368447
09/10/17 08:23 PM
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Here is a picture with the rotor frozen with the timing light on it, this is with 16 degrees of initial timing and 32 degrees total timing with another 14 degrees of vacuum advance at idle for a total of 30 degrees of idle timing.
The hole in the cap is cut right above the number 1 cylinders plug on the cap, you can see that by making a new spot on the reluctor ccw from the rotor that I moved the rotor forward, but it is a little too far forward which you can see in the picture that it's a little past the cap terminal, which is why I still have a slight missfire but it is much better then it was before I relocated the position of the rotor.
I'm drilling a new hole on a new reluctor ccw that's a little closer to the original hole and I'm hoping that will line up it perfectly, just by eye balling I'd say I'm gonna pull the rotor back another 5-7 degrees and I'm hoping that's all that's needed t have it perfectly phased.

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Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368448
09/10/17 08:23 PM
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I would redrill another hole in the same reluctor, just go to another 45 deg space inbetween another set of teeth. EDIT with a 45 deg spacing on the C to C of a pair of cap bulges, an 11 deg can will swing an arc 1/4 of that distance. Ideally you want the rotor tip to cap terminal tip gap to be the closest at WOT (no/mimimal vac) as the can is retracted & the required voltage to jump the plug gap is the greatest at that point in time (high cyl psi) and the available voltage is the lowest (coil rise time between firings is the lowest at that fast rising/higher RPM) & it takes energy to jump that meaningless gap then what is left goes to the plug.

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/10/17 11:52 PM.

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Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368502
09/10/17 09:54 PM
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Ya I didn't even think about that! O well I have 3 brand new reluctors to work with.
And I can order more if need be.
Im getting ready to try the reluctor that's slightly closer to the tooth, and I'll report back.
Judging by where the rotor was with my last reluctor position I'd say it needed to come back another 7-10 degrees cause I think the first hole I made ccw from the original hole was about 20 degrees away from the original.
So I made a new one on one of the new reluctors that's about 15 degrees away from original hole roughly.

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368514
09/10/17 10:06 PM
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just (3)

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Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: RapidRobert] #2368622
09/11/17 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
just (3)


So that distributor sent me to bed tonight feeling totally defeated, I feel like I got my ass kicked by that thing.
I gave up, I tried a hole behind the original hole on the reluctor I bought at the parts store and it wasn't happy with it because of some of the teeth being longer then some of the others I think the reluctor teeth were smacking on the pick up coil post.
Not 100 percent sure, I just heard it making a strange noise around the distributor that changed tone with the timing.
So I grabbed the original reluctor that came on the firecore distributor, picked a different tooth that hadn't had any drilling done on it yet, went about 15 degrees ccw from the tooth.
Put it back on dropped the distributor back in the truck and started it and it's running rough as hell hardly wanting to idle, i shut it off and slammed the hood and said [censored] you im done.
So first thing tomorrow morning Rick ehnerberg is getting 35 dollars of my hard earned money for one of his reluctors and I'll have my fingers crossed that it works.
The closest I can this weekend to having the rotor properly phased was when I shared the photo of it being a little too far forward from the cap terminal, after that it all went to [censored] and I started having problems drilling straight holes into the reluctors and having problems getting the roll pins to go in the slots that I drilled, hearing strange noises from the distributor with the part store reluctor and then having the truck not even wanting to idle after a long a new hole.
It was just a total ass bearing with that truck winning by knock out in the first couple rounds.

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368632
09/11/17 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted By pjc360
Originally Posted By RapidRobert
just (3)


So that distributor sent me to bed tonight feeling totally defeated, I feel like I got my ass kicked by that thing.
I gave up, I tried a hole behind the original hole on the reluctor I bought at the parts store and it wasn't happy with it because of some of the teeth being longer then some of the others I think the reluctor teeth were smacking on the pick up coil post.
Not 100 percent sure, I just heard it making a strange noise around the distributor that changed tone with the timing.
So I grabbed the original reluctor that came on the firecore distributor, picked a different tooth that hadn't had any drilling done on it yet, went about 15 degrees ccw from the tooth.
Put it back on dropped the distributor back in the truck and started it and it's running rough as hell hardly wanting to idle, i shut it off and slammed the hood and said [censored] you im done.
So first thing tomorrow morning Rick ehnerberg is getting 35 dollars of my hard earned money for one of his reluctors and I'll have my fingers crossed that it works.
The closest I can this weekend to having the rotor properly phased was when I shared the photo of it being a little too far forward from the cap terminal, after that it all went to [censored] and I started having problems drilling straight holes into the reluctors and having problems getting the roll pins to go in the slots that I drilled, hearing strange noises from the distributor with the part store reluctor and then having the truck not even wanting to idle after a long a new hole.
It was just a total ass beating with that truck winning by knock out in the first couple rounds.

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368724
09/11/17 11:02 AM
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So last night when I decided to give up on phasing the rotor, I pulled the distributor back out and brought it inside and was fiddling around with it and I noticed something odd that I'm wondering if it could be causing the rotor phasing issue.
When I hold the shaft at the bottom of the distributor (the part that goes down into the engine) and then I hold the shaft at the top (where the rotor goes on) the top part of the shaft will rotate clockwise a good amount while the bottom half of the shaft isn't moving at all???
It's like the top part of the shaft is spring loaded and it will twist back and forth while the bottom half of the shaft is staying solid.
Is that normal?

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368730
09/11/17 11:10 AM
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You're probably just seeing how the mechanical advance springs work.


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Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: John Brown] #2368735
09/11/17 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted By John Brown
You're probably just seeing how the mechanical advance springs work.


Ok that makes sense, it just made me wonder if when the bottom half of the shaft is spinning by the engine if the top part is lagging or going faster then the bottom half which in turn could be causing the rotor phasing issue.
Maybe I should call firecore and ask if that's normal

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368740
09/11/17 11:19 AM
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One other issue I was having is whenever I relocated the reluctor I would have to physically advance the distributor a lot further over to achieve the same amount of initial timing which makes it impossible to plug in the vacuum advance.
How do I get the correct spot back on the distributor housing without affecting the timing? Do I have to pull the oil pump drive thingy out and re-locate it and then drop the distributor back in pointing the rotor where it needs to be?

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368774
09/11/17 12:34 PM
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Yes reclock the intergear. stick a large screwdriver in the slot & twist it CW & see if it will rise up & over the teeth (1) notch then let it fall back down. If it is real tight you may need to use two thin stiff pieces of wire with an L bend on the ends to get it up off of its seat. things are tight in that area.


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Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: RapidRobert] #2368823
09/11/17 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
Yes reclock the intergear. stick a large screwdriver in the slot & twist it CW & see if it will rise up & over the teeth (1) notch then let it fall back down. If it is real tight you may need to use two thin stiff pieces of wire with an L bend on the ends to get it up off of its seat. things are tight in that area.


Ok I ordered ricks modified reluctor this morning, my drill bit started to get dull after a couple holes drilled into the reluctors I had and it got harder to drill a straight hole
That the roll pin would fit snug into, I don't have a drill press or even a shop
I was doing all of this in my driveway with a hand drill and vice, it was just pissing me off to the point of saying screw this, I had it some what close that one time but the rotor was a little too far forward after re-positioning the reuctor ccw about 20 degrees.
Ricks reluctor had holes drilled and is noted how many degrees, I'm thinking 10-15 degrees ccw and it would be pretty much spot on.
The slop that I'm feeing at the top of the shaft on the distributor is that just the advance springs? And is it normal?

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368833
09/11/17 02:39 PM
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its a combo of the intergear notch/dist lower shaft tang rotational slop and or the springs. if you are not twisting hard enough to get into the springs then it is all intergear slop. it does cause spark scatter at idle when timing it (spark jumping) & it it indicative of a less than a spot on perfect eng but might be left alone as is for now. People have reportedly resolved it with a 1/2" ID setscrew collar slipped on the shaft but I would rather have my welder build up the tang for a dead on rotational rather than the axial solution with the collar fit & seperately, further up, adding shims above the plastic collar with the roll pin to reduce the lower shaft axial play to .005". speedway mtrs has a kit of dead flat thin shims for $10.


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Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: RapidRobert] #2368904
09/11/17 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
its a combo of the intergear notch/dist lower shaft tang rotational slop and or the springs. if you are not twisting hard enough to get into the springs then it is all intergear slop. it does cause spark scatter at idle when timing it (spark jumping) & it it indicative of a less than a spot on perfect eng but might be left alone as is for now. People have reportedly resolved it with a 1/2" ID setscrew collar slipped on the shaft but I would rather have my welder build up the tang for a dead on rotational rather than the axial solution with the collar fit & seperately, further up, adding shims above the plastic collar with the roll pin to reduce the lower shaft axial play to .005". speedway mtrs has a kit of dead flat thin shims for $10.


So how do I determine if it is all advance springs?
Just watch the springs as I get the top part of the shaft to move? Cause if it's slop in the distributor then I'm returning it cause that would be bs this thing doesn't even have 100 miles on it.

Re: Vibration at 2500 rpm [Re: pjc360] #2368916
09/11/17 05:20 PM
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I called firecore and talked to a guy in their tech department and he said that movement on the top part of the shaft where the rotor goes is from the advance springs and mechanism.

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