|
Suspension gurus step inside.
#2339363
07/18/17 09:30 PM
07/18/17 09:30 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 582
Dayton, OH
1980volare
OP
My man card has just been revoked.
|
OP
My man card has just been revoked.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 582
Dayton, OH
|
Looking to drop my 60' down. The power is there, I feel there is a lot of wasted motion, particularly in the front suspension. It almost seems as if the front end comes up too fast still, tops out the front shocks, and then goes back down. It's dead hooking and not even trying to spin the tires. The front shocks are Viking DA as are the rear. The fronts are full tight on extension. The rears are 10 from full tight on extension, and 8 from tight on compression. Let's see what everyone thinks. Maybe time for limiters, or revalved front shocks. https://youtu.be/xM_HLx1V56w
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339365
07/18/17 09:32 PM
07/18/17 09:32 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
The front seems to move pretty fast to have the shock set on full extension.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339414
07/18/17 11:44 PM
07/18/17 11:44 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
|
Exactly my thought. I've already contacted them and they can't revalve them, but they said they'd treat me right on a set that is valved tighter. Right for who?
[image][/image]
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339641
07/19/17 12:07 PM
07/19/17 12:07 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
|
You need stiffer valving, if in that video that if full tight on front extension you need more.. This is exactly why I suggested Afco in the other shock thread. At least if need be they can be re valved..
How fast is this car? Looks like a caltrac deal?!?
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339650
07/19/17 12:30 PM
07/19/17 12:30 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,558
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
|
Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,558
Fulton County, PA
|
Exactly my thought. I've already contacted them and they can't revalve them, but they said they'd treat me right on a set that is valved tighter. Can't revalve them? Can they rebuild them? That's silly. Afco Big Gun and don't look back.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339689
07/19/17 01:30 PM
07/19/17 01:30 PM
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
Adobedude
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
|
You can re-valve Viking Crusaders, not the Warriors which is what he must have
2001 Dodge Dakota
408 All Motor
11.27 @ 117.83 mph
2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339694
07/19/17 01:37 PM
07/19/17 01:37 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
|
They don't offer the "Crusader" option for front shocks. At least they didn't when I bought mine b/c I asked if they had any special valving for front shocks like they do rears for high HP cars...they said no.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339729
07/19/17 02:26 PM
07/19/17 02:26 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
Something is wrong. I don't think we're talking about an 8 second car. I have vVikings and on full extension I can't pull them apart.
On the car the front has zero movement. It's like it's locked down.
All I have is a high 11 second stick car. Even with the clutch I can't use full rebound dampening.
Something else is happening. Either that valuing was incorrect when they left Viking, something broke internally, or, not to be a smart ass...maybe the OP is turning the knob the wrong way.
I've seen that happen with dirt bike and sport bike suspension. Guys grab the knob and turn it the wrong direction and wonder why they blew through the corner of ended up on their lid.
I have to think something is out of whack. I personally know of 8 second cars using that Viking shock and they aren't out of dampening.
Weird.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2339744
07/19/17 03:00 PM
07/19/17 03:00 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 582
Dayton, OH
1980volare
OP
My man card has just been revoked.
|
OP
My man card has just been revoked.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 582
Dayton, OH
|
Yes, these are the warrior series. They are definitely set on full tight. It's tough to pick up the front end when lifting up on it. Unfortunately afco doesn't have anything that's a bolt on deal for this car. I am ordering custom valved crusaders for the front. You need stiffer valving, if in that video that if full tight on front extension you need more.. This is exactly why I suggested Afco in the other shock thread. At least if need be they can be re valved..
How fast is this car? Looks like a caltrac deal?!? It's a caltrac car, with stockish multileaf setup (I know multi leafs and caltracs won't work) It's been 9.4 @ 144 with a 1.4 60'
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339775
07/19/17 03:43 PM
07/19/17 03:43 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 472
Minnesota, USA
humpty
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 472
Minnesota, USA
|
In the video it looks like the rear tire is not getting hit hard enough as the tire spins briefly, hooks, then offloads. Try loosening the rear shock extension to hit the tire harder and see if you can get some separation to stay on the tire longer. If the bar isn't in the top hole I'd move it there to get more leverage. Also make sure there isn't any binding in the rear suspension. There's a great thread on yellowbullet on this subject too - http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288916It's old but still relevant. Kind of like Thumpers' weight loss thread :}
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339785
07/19/17 03:54 PM
07/19/17 03:54 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
|
Yes, these are the warrior series. They are definitely set on full tight. It's tough to pick up the front end when lifting up on it. Unfortunately afco doesn't have anything that's a bolt on deal for this car. I am ordering custom valved crusaders for the front. You need stiffer valving, if in that video that if full tight on front extension you need more.. This is exactly why I suggested Afco in the other shock thread. At least if need be they can be re valved..
How fast is this car? Looks like a caltrac deal?!? It's a caltrac car, with stockish multileaf setup (I know multi leafs and caltracs won't work) It's been 9.4 @ 144 with a 1.4 60' On spray........... 
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2339800
07/19/17 04:06 PM
07/19/17 04:06 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
|
On boost...FTW!
Couple things I see.
1) The rear doesn't look like it hits the tire hardly at all. But it's not spinning, so loosening the shock to hit the tire will just make the 60ft worse.
2) Does the car sit up really high in the back, or are you foot braking it hard before you grab the brake? Before you mess a whole lot with the bump box, you might just want to pull it into the stage beam, hit the brake with the suspension settled, and then spool it.
3) Front shocks are WAAAAAAY too loose. I target around 1.5-2 rear tire turns before the front suspension is out of travel. Looks like you have the fronts off the ground in around 1/2 of a rear tire rotation.
How much power and RPM are you trying to leave on? I'm non intercooler so it's not apples to apples, but mine will leave on around 4400rpm @14-15psi on a decent track. That was on the non-pro tire with more weight then you. You might just need to up the power.
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: dizuster]
#2339938
07/19/17 07:42 PM
07/19/17 07:42 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 582
Dayton, OH
1980volare
OP
My man card has just been revoked.
|
OP
My man card has just been revoked.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 582
Dayton, OH
|
On boost...FTW!
Couple things I see.
1) The rear doesn't look like it hits the tire hardly at all. But it's not spinning, so loosening the shock to hit the tire will just make the 60ft worse.
2) Does the car sit up really high in the back, or are you foot braking it hard before you grab the brake? Before you mess a whole lot with the bump box, you might just want to pull it into the stage beam, hit the brake with the suspension settled, and then spool it.
3) Front shocks are WAAAAAAY too loose. I target around 1.5-2 rear tire turns before the front suspension is out of travel. Looks like you have the fronts off the ground in around 1/2 of a rear tire rotation.
How much power and RPM are you trying to leave on? I'm non intercooler so it's not apples to apples, but mine will leave on around 4400rpm @14-15psi on a decent track. That was on the non-pro tire with more weight then you. You might just need to up the power. Glad you chimed in, I was actually about to pm you about this. The car does sit up higher in the rear, and im not foot braking it in. I roll into the first beam, then grab the brake and bump in. The class I run is .400 pro tree. When I get the front shocks on I'm assuming I'm going to have to loosen the rear extension some maybe? But I 100% agree the front is way loose. I'm leaving at 4000rpm currently and it will build about 12lb on the brake. I've also got a 1.80/3.55 so I'm betting it will take more rpm, but didn't bother to try with the front acting like it did. I use the 6530 box and pull .7 per psi. A buddy of mine mentioned leave it at full timing in low gear and just pull timing in the end of low gear, and high gear. I don't like over complicating things, and I feel that will. I'm thinking there is a lot left in the 60' with just shock adjustments.
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: dizuster]
#2339952
07/19/17 08:03 PM
07/19/17 08:03 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
|
On boost...FTW!
Couple things I see.
1) The rear doesn't look like it hits the tire hardly at all. But it's not spinning, so loosening the shock to hit the tire will just make the 60ft worse.
2) Does the car sit up really high in the back, or are you foot braking it hard before you grab the brake? Before you mess a whole lot with the bump box, you might just want to pull it into the stage beam, hit the brake with the suspension settled, and then spool it.
3) Front shocks are WAAAAAAY too loose. I target around 1.5-2 rear tire turns before the front suspension is out of travel. Looks like you have the fronts off the ground in around 1/2 of a rear tire rotation.
How much power and RPM are you trying to leave on? I'm non intercooler so it's not apples to apples, but mine will leave on around 4400rpm @14-15psi on a decent track. That was on the non-pro tire with more weight then you. You might just need to up the power. ALL MOTOR..........FTW.............Knew it had a power adder just wasn't sure which one......... 
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2340249
07/20/17 12:02 PM
07/20/17 12:02 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
|
Cant believe Afco don't make a front shock for it, while not the most popular car out there a TON of them run in Stock and SS classes..
Anyway given what you have said the front is WAY to loose. I dont see the rear end moving at all really. SO I would say its plenty tight back there but don't see it spinning so that's fine. My guess is as the power goes up you may need to address the rear valving eventually as well. Would like to see some better video of the entire side of the car too.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
|
|
|
Re: Suspension gurus step inside.
[Re: 1980volare]
#2340453
07/20/17 05:17 PM
07/20/17 05:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
|
afco doesn't have anything that's a bolt on deal for this car. I am ordering custom valved crusaders for the front. Have you called to confirm that Viking now offers custom "crusader" valving for the front shocks?
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
|
|
|
|
|
