Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2330238
07/02/17 04:52 PM
07/02/17 04:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581
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master
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Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
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Great info! Thanks for posting.
Nautilus Racing- We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2330377
07/02/17 09:44 PM
07/02/17 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 274 Granbury TX
Prochargedmopar
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Granbury TX
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Excellent info that backs up the videos and articles I've been studying.
That is a HUGE amount of low to mid lift flow!! Right in the sweet spots of where the cam sees it twice each cycle with dramatic increase in avg. #'s.
How many hours does this type of quality valve job take you? How about the time for blending after the cutting is done? Do you use cutters or stones? Did you do any deshrouding in the chamber after the larger valve was installed?
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2330567
07/03/17 10:41 AM
07/03/17 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I Live Here
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CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2330604
07/03/17 11:58 AM
07/03/17 11:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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master
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West Coast, USA
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Often times a man's life in these parts depends upon a mear scrap of information.
I'm sure glad you were the man who went through my heads. Thanks a million for all the advice, time and guidance on my project, Dwayne!
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2330625
07/03/17 12:23 PM
07/03/17 12:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,589 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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I Live Here
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Dwayne,how does flow characteristics of flow change when boost is added to the equation??
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: cudadon]
#2331337
07/04/17 01:12 PM
07/04/17 01:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131 New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Dwayne how often do you recommend refreshing the heads? A number of runs would be helpful to me because some YEARS I haven't run many races do to work.
I always try to pick the best shops for my work and I figure that is who should refresh them or I would've picked a different shop in the first place!
Thanks, Don Thanks Dwayne.
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2331719
07/05/17 01:24 AM
07/05/17 01:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I'm not sure what I'm looking at, even blowing the pic up. Any way of marking the seat to better see what you're taking about. I really want to understand what you're showing, very interesting, thanks The 45* on the original seat sits well below the transition into the chamber. The larger valve with the recut seat raises the valve up out of the "hole" which improves the low-lift flow (less obstructed path into the chamber).
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2332824
07/06/17 11:45 PM
07/06/17 11:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
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I Live Here
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Columbia, CT
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Wait... Whoa... Hold on a sec. So you're saying that the cheapest valve job is not as good as the way overpriced valve job at a completing shop?! Always a pleasure to see your work Dwayne.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2333045
07/07/17 01:07 PM
07/07/17 01:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I have no idea what the other shop charged..... For all I know I was less $$$. In this particular case, it wouldn't have taken any longer, and shouldn't have cost a penny extra to cut the seats to the proper diameter, instead of cutting the seat smaller than what was done originally, and consequently sinking the valve. In fact, it would have taken less time because the seat would have cleaned up with less actual cutting time. A lot of times if I'm freshening a set of heads that I did originally, and the seats aren't pounded out, I'll just give them a light bump with a fine stone to refinish the sealing surface. This is usually the best way to ensure the least amount of material is being removed from the seat. Which way the seats get refinished(machining or grinding) is basically a judgement call made after evaluating the condition of the heads.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2333053
07/07/17 01:20 PM
07/07/17 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Here's another example or what can only be described as "poor workmanship"..... Aka, a butcher job. This is a set of older "large oval port" BBC heads, that were last done by some large "volume rebuilder". These are about as bad as I've seen with regards to valve seat work. The step in the pic is .085" deep!!
I'm also including a pic of the exhaust seat recession. I don't know how it looked before they were run, but this is what you get from HD service with old iron heads, non-hardened seats, and unleaded fuel.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2333076
07/07/17 02:08 PM
07/07/17 02:08 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
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super stock
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Lost in Time
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On the last refresh on my 915s, yes I know get new heads, I replaced the 2.14 with 2.18s and went with new valve seats in the exhaust. We were after not only better flow but a more constant and reduced chamber volume, all work was done by a Mopar racer/head rebuilder and top notch. I'm very satisfied with the heads. 620tq /645hp e85, 500", 12.5 cr
I'm not sure how much more can be done to the head$, next time new heads and these if they're still good will go on the backup motor.
I appreciate the information in this thread, one thing I would like to add is all new heads need to be worked over, guides and seats.
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: Iowan]
#2333322
07/07/17 10:18 PM
07/07/17 10:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
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Charlotte, North Carolina
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One thing I would like to add is all new heads need to be worked over, guides and seats. Hmmm. When I built a SBC powered Mustang, maybe that is why my machinist wanted me to send him the Track 1 heads bare. Said that for him to get and install the valve gear won't be much more than buying assembled heads, and they will work better.
[image][/image]
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2333583
07/08/17 12:59 PM
07/08/17 12:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Heads are no different than any other part built in volume........ Some will need/should have the details looked over, and addressed if necessary. Just like pretty much every other part of a perfermance engine build, if you're trying the get the best power/maximum durability out of the components you're going to use.
Some should really get a fair amount of attention before being put into service, others will be fine. The only way to know is to check.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: So......lets say its time to freshen your race heads........
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2333617
07/08/17 02:12 PM
07/08/17 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 274 Granbury TX
Prochargedmopar
enthusiast
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Granbury TX
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Here's another example or what can only be described as "poor workmanship"..... Aka, a butcher job. This is a set of older "large oval port" BBC heads, that were last done by some large "volume rebuilder". These are about as bad as I've seen with regards to valve seat work. The step in the pic is .085" deep!!
I'm also including a pic of the exhaust seat recession. I don't know how it looked before they were run, but this is what you get from HD service with old iron heads, non-hardened seats, and unleaded fuel. Wow, that exhaust valve looks like it is about to be pulled through into the port. Yikes. Hope they have weak springs on that head. lol
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
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