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Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2302215
05/10/17 06:39 AM
05/10/17 06:39 AM
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Indiana
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lazybooker Offline OP
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Carb # is 4144-1 came with 62 jets and a 31 squirter. What should I step the jets to ?

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2302293
05/10/17 11:25 AM
05/10/17 11:25 AM
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Blair County,PA
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There is nothing wrong with the #31 squirter,it is just a momentary thing,get up to #64 jets and I think you will be fine.My 6pk 4spd Superbird has an old Direct Connection Street Hemi grind 280/474,#65 jets in center,outboards have #91 passenger side,#93 driver side,36* total and runs like a clock,wouldn't change a thing.

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305180
05/15/17 10:12 PM
05/15/17 10:12 PM
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Indiana
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lazybooker Offline OP
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I have installed a Carter street pump, purple diaphram springs, 64 main jets and I still have the same issue. I did however wire the outboards closed and the car runs just fine at WOT. With the outboards hooked up the engine spits and sputters between 3000 & 3500 and nose dives. The outboards are moving. Is it possible that it is spiking lean when they open ? Where should I go from here ?

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305185
05/15/17 10:20 PM
05/15/17 10:20 PM
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chicagoland,usa
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You may have mentioned it, but did you check the length on that pump pushrod in block?

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305213
05/15/17 11:02 PM
05/15/17 11:02 PM
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Indiana
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lazybooker Offline OP
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I compared to others that I have and it is the same

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305257
05/16/17 12:29 AM
05/16/17 12:29 AM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Originally Posted By lazybooker
I have installed a Carter street pump, purple diaphram springs, 64 main jets and I still have the same issue. I did however wire the outboards closed and the car runs just fine at WOT. With the outboards hooked up the engine spits and sputters between 3000 & 3500 and nose dives. The outboards are moving. Is it possible that it is spiking lean when they open ? Where should I go from here ?




Have you confirmed there's fuel in the outboard bowls?, and established the proper fuel float height?

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305317
05/16/17 02:08 AM
05/16/17 02:08 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Quote:
Where should I go from here ?


when your foot is on the floor and it's sputtering and popping.......the fuel pressure is??


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305378
05/16/17 09:33 AM
05/16/17 09:33 AM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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Originally Posted By lazybooker
I have installed a Carter street pump, purple diaphram springs, 64 main jets and I still have the same issue. I did however wire the outboards closed and the car runs just fine at WOT. With the outboards hooked up the engine spits and sputters between 3000 & 3500 and nose dives. The outboards are moving. Is it possible that it is spiking lean when they open ? Where should I go from here ?


Can you elaborate on "spits and sputters? Does it bog/hesitate for two or three seconds and then start accelerating again?, or will it not go past 3500?
What happens if you drop the hammer from a slow roll just off idle? Will it run up to 3000 before there is a problem?
What gear do you have?


We're 5 pages into this so I have lost track.
Are these new carbs?
Have you double or triple checked to make sure that the outboard carbs have the fuel level at or above the sight hole opening? Make sure that the fuel is trickling out a bit.

You should be able to idle the car in park, disconnect the outboard carbs, and throttle up the car using one outboard carb to make sure that the main circuit is feeding through the booster. Then do it to the other. Do that after you check the fuel bowl levels again.

Report back results and we'll go from there.

Last edited by BSB67; 05/16/17 09:44 AM.
Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305431
05/16/17 11:51 AM
05/16/17 11:51 AM
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Indiana
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lazybooker Offline OP
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To clarify, when outboards try to open, it will not accelerate past 3500 rpm no matter how long you stay in it. If from a rolling start it does the same thing. These are new Holley replacement carbs, 4365-1 outboards and 4144-1 center. The fuel levels are just at the bottom edge of the sight hole and will trickle out. I have a 3:91 gear. I will try just one outboard tonight and then the other and report back.
I know this post has went on forever but I am still not able to solve the issue. I hope you guys don't give up on me. This is my first six pack experience but I have another one waiting in line for restoration.

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305432
05/16/17 11:54 AM
05/16/17 11:54 AM
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Indiana
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Last night I tied the outboards closed and test drove it. It hit 5000 on the two barrel with no issues. The problem only happens with the outboards.

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305454
05/16/17 12:40 PM
05/16/17 12:40 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
I know this post has went on forever but I am still not able to solve the issue. I hope you guys don't give up on me. This is my first six pack experience.
You're fine bro & in fact the toughies are the ones we learn from. I ain't never had one but I hear 6 paks are awesome/tremendous/killers once they are right.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305456
05/16/17 12:45 PM
05/16/17 12:45 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Originally Posted By lazybooker
Last night I tied the outboards closed and test drove it. It hit 5000 on the two barrel with no issues. The problem only happens with the outboards.


Still like/need to know what the fuel pressure is at WOT.

The problem is simple.
Either the end carbs aren't flowing enough fuel because there is something wrong with one or both of them........ Or........ The fuel system doesn't supply enough volume to keep up with the demand when the outboards are opened.

If the pressure at WOT with all carbs operational remains at 4psi or more, it's a carb issue.

If the pressure drops to like 0-2psi, it's more likely a supply issue.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305472
05/16/17 01:32 PM
05/16/17 01:32 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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I bought a new set of the 1971 440 replacement carbs. and the float levels needed adjusting first before they would make good power scope
They bog bad stock shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: DAYCLONA] #2305478
05/16/17 01:50 PM
05/16/17 01:50 PM
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South Georgia
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Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
Originally Posted By lazybooker
I have installed a Carter street pump, purple diaphram springs, 64 main jets and I still have the same issue. I did however wire the outboards closed and the car runs just fine at WOT. With the outboards hooked up the engine spits and sputters between 3000 & 3500 and nose dives. The outboards are moving. Is it possible that it is spiking lean when they open ? Where should I go from here ?




Have you confirmed there's fuel in the outboard bowls?, and established the proper fuel float height?


Verify that you have fuel in the outboard bowls, if so pull the outboard bowls and check to see if something crazy is going on with the metering plates (orifices blocked or not drilled). Sounds like you are getting all air and no fuel through the outboards.



1971 BS23H1B
Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: fast68plymouth] #2305479
05/16/17 01:51 PM
05/16/17 01:51 PM
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Have the outer carbs been apart or messed with? Any aftermarket parts? Gaskets that are incorrect, defective, damaged or missinstalled could block the main circuit fuel to the boosters.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305506
05/16/17 02:50 PM
05/16/17 02:50 PM
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As mentioned, at idle disconnect the linkage from one of the outboards. You can open that one end carb by hand and throttle the engine, you can see if they are flowing fuel through the main metering system.

Do not drive the car with the outboard linkage removed, this linkage is what CLOSES the end carbs!

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305509
05/16/17 03:02 PM
05/16/17 03:02 PM
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Northern Calyfornua
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Originally Posted By lazybooker
Last night I tied the outboards closed and test drove it. It hit 5000 on the two barrel with no issues. The problem only happens with the outboards.


This finding is valuable information eliminating many other possibilities. Now might we shutdown only one of the outboard carbs?

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305522
05/16/17 03:20 PM
05/16/17 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted By lazybooker
Thanks so much. You know its a bad day when you tear a bowl gasket and you don't have one:( Parts should be here tomorrow and I'll try again. The carbs are new and I have 62 jets. Should I up them and what should I up them to ? 64 ??
----------*** the carbs are brand new ? and you had them open ? did you open the outboards ? ? AS SUGGESTED , you need to verify fuel pressure to figure out if it is a supply problem or in the carbs . the wrong/installation or gaskets blocking main fuel holes ? you can visually see fuel coming out of the main boosters if you check one at the time.....are the outboard idol screws open enough ?

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305601
05/16/17 06:09 PM
05/16/17 06:09 PM
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Indiana
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lazybooker Offline OP
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Yes the carbs are new. I had the bowl off of the center carb to change the power valve and jets to 64 and I had the bowl off of 1 outboard for a visual check and found nothing. The gaskets are correct. At this time I do not have a good way to check fuel pressure but I will check one outboard at at a time for flow tonight. The outboard idle screws are out 3/4. Should they be more ?

Re: 440 six pack issues [Re: lazybooker] #2305659
05/16/17 08:10 PM
05/16/17 08:10 PM
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Prospect, PA
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Originally Posted By lazybooker
...The fuel levels are just at the bottom edge of the sight hole and will trickle out...


Did you adjust them to this level, or was this the way they came? How long ago did you check? It is time to double and triple check stuff. Even if they look perfect, adjust them up just to check. Get some rags, and let the fuel roll out. You could just run them up until fuel comes out the booster, just to check. Don't do that with the sight hole screw removed.

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