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Raceday story with a not so happy ending #2273029
03/20/17 02:53 PM
03/20/17 02:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline OP
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Well we had a rough weekend with cars around here. First off Friday night while my son was making license passes in a friends door car we had a little mishap. Seems some bolts from the rocker stands decided to pull the threads and come apart. Doesn't look horrible but will need some thread repair and a couple pushrods at least.

Turn to Saturday for our 4th bracket race of the year. My son has only been racing for just over a year. This was his 11th race overall. We started him in Super Pro and he has been learning. Lots of close racing but all in all doing better overtime out. Making better decisions up top mainly. He got down to 5 cars at the last race so we were optimistic going into Saturday. Well he was doing well again, got by round one and headed to round two had a tough opponent and local racing family who has a few NHRA National championships under their belts. Anyway was a great race. Opponent was .007 on the tree my son was .001 he got up top killed .012 in ET and 4MPH and took a .010 stripe for the W. Unfortunately he thought the battery had dies as the car would not restart. So we towed it back and hooked it up. Towed him to the line just incase, as we had little time to charge between rounds. When we got him to the point we could let it run for some heat(E85)he went to start it, I knew immediately it was not a battery issue but rather a catastrophic engine issue. So we loaded up and went home. After this he tells me he ripped the throttle twice to back into his opponent and went to put it in neutral and it just shut off. So likely went book then..

Yesterday I decided to start tearing into it. Decided to pup the radiator cap and have a look. Hmmm no water. So I am now optimistic. Maybe we just lost a head gasket. So start pulling plugs. Hmmm no water coming out, try to spin it now Bueno. I had noted #6 plug was very clean, like new infact. So get the trusty bore scope camera out and have a look. What I found was not a pretty sight..Part of a piston staring back at me.
Seems it had hydrauliced #6 so the teardown proceeded.

The pictures that follow may be hard to look at and not suitable for young children. They are graphic images to be sure. . #6 made a big mess for sure. The rest of the engine looked great and almost new. Anyway for those who have heard me say you are living on borrowed time with a stock block this is what they can do..FWIW this was a stock bore stock stroke 440 with a set of stock replacement Ross pistons, 440source H beams a small roller and a set of OOTB -1 heads. Ran on E85 and in out 1875lb dragster ran 8.30's on its last pass here in Vegas at altitude and a 90 degree day..

now we need to find something to put in the car for him to keep the learning curve going.


Borescope pic, Not the bst image but the black spot is the missing piston.


This is once that head was removed




Rest of that piston in the oil pan, and a nice look at some of the missing cylinder wall



Some of the junk in the pan, was a few pounds of it all together..


Lastly the start of the issue. Thing never puffed smoke or had any issue before going boom in the lights.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273038
03/20/17 03:13 PM
03/20/17 03:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Major bummer... I thought you were just
checking cyl wall thickness but.. doing it
the hard way... good luck getting something
back into the car
wave

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273039
03/20/17 03:15 PM
03/20/17 03:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Missouri
J
jwb123 Offline
super stock
jwb123  Offline
super stock
J

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Missouri
So what do you think the root cause of the problem was? Did the cylinder fail first or the piston?

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273041
03/20/17 03:17 PM
03/20/17 03:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
Too Many Posts
slantzilla  Offline
Too Many Posts

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Park Forest, IL
Did the cylinder wall let go and get the piston or vice versa?

Treed drive

Last edited by slantzilla; 03/20/17 03:19 PM.

"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273049
03/20/17 03:34 PM
03/20/17 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
master
Bad340fish  Offline
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Tulsa OK
The rusty cracks in that bottom picture point to the cylinder going first.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273053
03/20/17 03:42 PM
03/20/17 03:42 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
Iowan Offline
super stock
Iowan  Offline
super stock

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Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
How many runs on the motor, piton weight and max RPM?
I'm just curious because I run my junk hard and have been lucky over the years I'd guess.


Have a great day
Iowan

"obsolete is neat"

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273061
03/20/17 03:53 PM
03/20/17 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
T
Triple Threat Offline
master
Triple Threat  Offline
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T

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Renton Washington
frown

Been there, no fun. Time to toss the 511 in.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Bad340fish] #2273079
03/20/17 04:23 PM
03/20/17 04:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By Bad340fish
The rusty cracks in that bottom picture point to the cylinder going first.
iagree shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273083
03/20/17 04:29 PM
03/20/17 04:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Bummer! Time for a low deck light wieght deal?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Bad340fish] #2273087
03/20/17 04:31 PM
03/20/17 04:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Originally Posted By Bad340fish
The rusty cracks in that bottom picture point to the cylinder going first.


Thats my opinion also... I had the same issue on
one of my SBs but it didnt hurt anything and I
had to have a sleeve put in... at least on mine
the piston didnt want to turn the engine over..
it was full of water on that one hole
wave

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273092
03/20/17 04:35 PM
03/20/17 04:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,135
my own world
theraif Offline
master
theraif  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,135
my own world
when you fast guys break something ouch

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273120
03/20/17 05:14 PM
03/20/17 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,289
Tucson AZ,
M
MadMopars Offline
pro stock
MadMopars  Offline
pro stock
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,289
Tucson AZ,
What a bummer. How'd the cylinder head fair?

On a side note, it could have been alot worse. Glad everyone's okay. up


[img]https://s9.postimg.cc/6fbjxzfvv/48-2016-_Drag-_Weekend-_Best-_Burnouts-lpr.jpg[/img]


73 GTX *440*727*8 3/4*
69 DART GT *440*4 SPEED*DANA*
73 ROAD RUNNER *451*4 SPEED*DANA*
64 F100 *383*4 SPEED*9"*
75 DODGE D300 *440*4 SPEED*DANA*
99 DODGE RAM 3500 4X4 DUALLY... ON 38"s
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273121
03/20/17 05:22 PM
03/20/17 05:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 500
MD
JACK1440 Offline
mopar
JACK1440  Offline
mopar

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Posts: 500
MD
Ouch... glad everything stayed inside!

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273167
03/20/17 06:32 PM
03/20/17 06:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,055
Michigan
A
A727Tflite Offline
master
A727Tflite  Offline
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A

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Posts: 3,055
Michigan
Can you post a pic of a good piston - I have a partial set of what I think are Ross units - maybe between us we can make a good set without the high dollar set up fees to match a piston.

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Triple Threat] #2273176
03/20/17 06:49 PM
03/20/17 06:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline OP
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Originally Posted By Triple Threat
frown

Been there, no fun. Time to toss the 511 in.


I sold the 511 to a guy in NorCal that needed an engine as this one just needed to finish out the year and has been doing fine.

The cylinder wall let go, surprised really it hydrauliced the cylinder. Never actually seen one do this before. Just dropped the heads off at a local shop, the guy he beat in RD 1. Told him wish you have won that round as we would have loaded up and likely found the issues next fire up when the cylinder filled with water. Then would have just been a block. So to answer the head question it bent both valves in that cylinder as well as banged up the head a bit. No real big damage will get fixed and be good to go. All the damage to block and heads were limited to #6. Still spun like butter once we removed the loose chunk of piston. All the bearings looked new as well. Need to scramble now to find something for the kid. I don't have anything except a couple of aluminum B1's to put in it and not ready to do that yet as they will likely be under the 7.50 mark.

Will post a pic up of a piston later. They are no use to me at this point.

Greg I had a good low deck built but see above. Someone was in need and I let it go. I have a couple 400 blocks left but not sure I wanna put a lot of money into one to finish the year. We will have an Indy/B1 for it next year just need to order pistons for it, a cam and get some good rockers for it. Then assemble it and get it in the car. He is on a tight budget and I am done paying for everything.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273200
03/20/17 07:14 PM
03/20/17 07:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
At least the mains stayed intact. Was this block sonic checked?
Doug

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: theraif] #2273201
03/20/17 07:14 PM
03/20/17 07:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,608
fresno ca
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mikeysmopars Offline
top fuel
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fresno ca
Originally Posted By theraif
when you fast guys break something ouch


shock Bummer Al!! Ouch!


Founder and CEO of the Central Valley Mopar Drag Pack
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273205
03/20/17 07:18 PM
03/20/17 07:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,308
Spencer NY
killermopar Offline
pro stock
killermopar  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,308
Spencer NY
It sucks. I wish I was closer and had one to loan you. I would. I have a lot of respect for you on here. Good luck, I hope something good turns up.

Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: dvw] #2273211
03/20/17 07:33 PM
03/20/17 07:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline OP
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Originally Posted By dvw
At least the mains stayed intact. Was this block sonic checked?
Doug


Doug, No we did not bother. It was just a "sterter" deal for the kid. Was my motor for my 68 D100 But you know how it is..

"Hey look 8.80's from a street motor cool"

"has to be more in it"

"cool .70's...60's... still has to be more"

"nice now we are getting somewhere 50's, 40's"

"lets try a new converter 30's 20's"

"Uh oh" (actually not quite those words. The actual reply was caught on video and is on facebook from someone else video of the car behind us smile

And now the rest of the story. I just cannot leave stuff alone. Never changed anything inside the engine at all. It was me trying to eek out whatever was in there. Couple converters, different launch RPM, shock and 4 link stuff some carb tweaking to get it in the .20's here in Vegas. It ran well for not much for sure, .28 at 161 with a 1.12 60' best. Yes in a dragster but still considering it was mostly stockish shortblock stuff we had around, which was his budget it was doing good. The cylinder walls are quite thin on a non thrust side to be sure. Easy to see now smile

In the end stock production parts are not created equal. Had we been concerned with the block for a build trying to make more power we would have done more due diligence. Or likely used an aftermarket block. This was never intended to be the be all end all for him. Just an engine to let him run a couple years get his feet wet and learn the lessons of racing Super Pro. I did not want him going 7.50's to start with. Still not sure I am ready for that, although he thinks he is. All I have available will get him there or better likely. So we are weighing options at this point. Just wish I had a plug and play option for now as he will likely miss the MATS here in Vegas as well as next couple bracket races.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending [Re: Al_Alguire] #2273219
03/20/17 07:48 PM
03/20/17 07:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
Very sorry to see and hear this Al but like others have said the outcome could have been worse. Hope you guys get it up and running again soon


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




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