Raceday story with a not so happy ending
#2273029
03/20/17 02:53 PM
03/20/17 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
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Well we had a rough weekend with cars around here. First off Friday night while my son was making license passes in a friends door car we had a little mishap. Seems some bolts from the rocker stands decided to pull the threads and come apart. Doesn't look horrible but will need some thread repair and a couple pushrods at least. Turn to Saturday for our 4th bracket race of the year. My son has only been racing for just over a year. This was his 11th race overall. We started him in Super Pro and he has been learning. Lots of close racing but all in all doing better overtime out. Making better decisions up top mainly. He got down to 5 cars at the last race so we were optimistic going into Saturday. Well he was doing well again, got by round one and headed to round two had a tough opponent and local racing family who has a few NHRA National championships under their belts. Anyway was a great race. Opponent was .007 on the tree my son was .001 he got up top killed .012 in ET and 4MPH and took a .010 stripe for the W. Unfortunately he thought the battery had dies as the car would not restart. So we towed it back and hooked it up. Towed him to the line just incase, as we had little time to charge between rounds. When we got him to the point we could let it run for some heat(E85)he went to start it, I knew immediately it was not a battery issue but rather a catastrophic engine issue. So we loaded up and went home. After this he tells me he ripped the throttle twice to back into his opponent and went to put it in neutral and it just shut off. So likely went book then.. Yesterday I decided to start tearing into it. Decided to pup the radiator cap and have a look. Hmmm no water. So I am now optimistic. Maybe we just lost a head gasket. So start pulling plugs. Hmmm no water coming out, try to spin it now Bueno. I had noted #6 plug was very clean, like new infact. So get the trusty bore scope camera out and have a look. What I found was not a pretty sight..Part of a piston staring back at me. Seems it had hydrauliced #6 so the teardown proceeded. The pictures that follow may be hard to look at and not suitable for young children. They are graphic images to be sure. . #6 made a big mess for sure. The rest of the engine looked great and almost new. Anyway for those who have heard me say you are living on borrowed time with a stock block this is what they can do..FWIW this was a stock bore stock stroke 440 with a set of stock replacement Ross pistons, 440source H beams a small roller and a set of OOTB -1 heads. Ran on E85 and in out 1875lb dragster ran 8.30's on its last pass here in Vegas at altitude and a 90 degree day.. now we need to find something to put in the car for him to keep the learning curve going. Borescope pic, Not the bst image but the black spot is the missing piston. This is once that head was removed Rest of that piston in the oil pan, and a nice look at some of the missing cylinder wall Some of the junk in the pan, was a few pounds of it all together.. Lastly the start of the issue. Thing never puffed smoke or had any issue before going boom in the lights.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2273038
03/20/17 03:13 PM
03/20/17 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Major bummer... I thought you were just checking cyl wall thickness but.. doing it the hard way... good luck getting something back into the car
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2273041
03/20/17 03:17 PM
03/20/17 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
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Did the cylinder wall let go and get the piston or vice versa? Treed
Last edited by slantzilla; 03/20/17 03:19 PM.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2273049
03/20/17 03:34 PM
03/20/17 03:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
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The rusty cracks in that bottom picture point to the cylinder going first.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340 87 "Chrysler" Conquest
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2273053
03/20/17 03:42 PM
03/20/17 03:42 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
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How many runs on the motor, piton weight and max RPM? I'm just curious because I run my junk hard and have been lucky over the years I'd guess.
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2273087
03/20/17 04:31 PM
03/20/17 04:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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The rusty cracks in that bottom picture point to the cylinder going first. Thats my opinion also... I had the same issue on one of my SBs but it didnt hurt anything and I had to have a sleeve put in... at least on mine the piston didnt want to turn the engine over.. it was full of water on that one hole
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: Triple Threat]
#2273176
03/20/17 06:49 PM
03/20/17 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
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Been there, no fun. Time to toss the 511 in. I sold the 511 to a guy in NorCal that needed an engine as this one just needed to finish out the year and has been doing fine. The cylinder wall let go, surprised really it hydrauliced the cylinder. Never actually seen one do this before. Just dropped the heads off at a local shop, the guy he beat in RD 1. Told him wish you have won that round as we would have loaded up and likely found the issues next fire up when the cylinder filled with water. Then would have just been a block. So to answer the head question it bent both valves in that cylinder as well as banged up the head a bit. No real big damage will get fixed and be good to go. All the damage to block and heads were limited to #6. Still spun like butter once we removed the loose chunk of piston. All the bearings looked new as well. Need to scramble now to find something for the kid. I don't have anything except a couple of aluminum B1's to put in it and not ready to do that yet as they will likely be under the 7.50 mark. Will post a pic up of a piston later. They are no use to me at this point. Greg I had a good low deck built but see above. Someone was in need and I let it go. I have a couple 400 blocks left but not sure I wanna put a lot of money into one to finish the year. We will have an Indy/B1 for it next year just need to order pistons for it, a cam and get some good rockers for it. Then assemble it and get it in the car. He is on a tight budget and I am done paying for everything.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: theraif]
#2273201
03/20/17 07:14 PM
03/20/17 07:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,608 fresno ca
mikeysmopars
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,608
fresno ca
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when you fast guys break something ouch Bummer Al!! Ouch!
Founder and CEO of the Central Valley Mopar Drag Pack
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: dvw]
#2273211
03/20/17 07:33 PM
03/20/17 07:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
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At least the mains stayed intact. Was this block sonic checked? Doug Doug, No we did not bother. It was just a "sterter" deal for the kid. Was my motor for my 68 D100 But you know how it is.. "Hey look 8.80's from a street motor cool" "has to be more in it" "cool .70's...60's... still has to be more" "nice now we are getting somewhere 50's, 40's" "lets try a new converter 30's 20's" "Uh oh" (actually not quite those words. The actual reply was caught on video and is on facebook from someone else video of the car behind us And now the rest of the story. I just cannot leave stuff alone. Never changed anything inside the engine at all. It was me trying to eek out whatever was in there. Couple converters, different launch RPM, shock and 4 link stuff some carb tweaking to get it in the .20's here in Vegas. It ran well for not much for sure, .28 at 161 with a 1.12 60' best. Yes in a dragster but still considering it was mostly stockish shortblock stuff we had around, which was his budget it was doing good. The cylinder walls are quite thin on a non thrust side to be sure. Easy to see now In the end stock production parts are not created equal. Had we been concerned with the block for a build trying to make more power we would have done more due diligence. Or likely used an aftermarket block. This was never intended to be the be all end all for him. Just an engine to let him run a couple years get his feet wet and learn the lessons of racing Super Pro. I did not want him going 7.50's to start with. Still not sure I am ready for that, although he thinks he is. All I have available will get him there or better likely. So we are weighing options at this point. Just wish I had a plug and play option for now as he will likely miss the MATS here in Vegas as well as next couple bracket races.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Raceday story with a not so happy ending
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2273219
03/20/17 07:48 PM
03/20/17 07:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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Very sorry to see and hear this Al but like others have said the outcome could have been worse. Hope you guys get it up and running again soon
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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