The bolt pattern and the center lip diameter is the same on a SB as a BB so it will bolt on a SB damper. (need a flat face type damper)

But you would need to figure out the placement of the trigger pickup on a SB. I designed it for a BB with the trigger pickup on the lower passenger side of the block. The hole pattern is symmetrical so you can spin it around and put the gap anywhere you need it but you would have to figure it out.

For the small block guys, this is what I did with mine. I ordered pieces from a crank trigger kit from MSD, the piece the sensor is mounted in is a blank from the MSD "universal" crank trigger kit. I was lucky that I could borrow a tap for the sensor, the taps I found for that M12-1 cost more than the sensor.

That looks like it should work. I do have extra wheels on hand at the moment but I haven't had the signal tested yet. If you're in a hurry and want to buy one now that is fine with me, just shoot me a PM. Otherwise I'm going to send a wheel down to Rich and have him look at the trigger signal and then I'll know how well the design works. My own test engine won't be together and running for a few more weeks so I won't have my own test data for a while.

Here's a 60-2 wheel I made for MrP. Small block. He has an odd driver side trigger mount so I left the "missing" teeth intact. He will need to remove them as needed for his custom set up. This particular wheel is 1/4" thick, was plasma table cut, and machined true.

THAT, I like.

The question I get is "do I NEED the 60-2 or 36-1 instead of a 4 magnet wheel". As far as resolution, we have never detected one iota of increased resolution with more teeth. So, is it better? maybe. Is it any better that you will ever SEE? highly unlikely. If you have a cam sensor, I personally see zero need for more teeth and if you don't have cam sensor, more teeth allows you the option of the waste fire coils if you choose to run them.

Most people already have a crank trigger, so leaving the flying magnet wheel and bracket in place and simply screwing in the Holley hall effect sensor is the quick and painless way to go

Well, my reasons for using 60-2 trigger wheels are admittedly probably not like most users. I can custom make them for specific applications for 1/4 of the price of a flying magnet wheel that may not be the best physical fit for the application. The 60-2 is just about universally accepted with most efi systems, and can use almost any sensor, generic magnetic or generic hall.
I started using these wheels because in the 90s with Electromotive, it was the only choice. Even then, Motronic, Motec, Haltec, and I think early Felpro efi could use it.

I agree. Not all aftermarket EFI vendors make it easy to run 36X, but they all can handle 58X. Holley has no problem with any of these.

AndyF***

-Would there be a possbility to get a sensor bracket + trigger wheel, that would mount to the driver side of the engine in the future ?? (I run a (older) low mount alternator bracket on the passenger side from DMI.. or may be the new type braket (alternator+sensor) from DMI would work with your trigger wheel??)

Thanks!
/Tom

"I started using these wheels because in the 90s with Electromotive"

At the time and may still, Electromotive explained they went with the 60-2 because the higher tooth count allowed them to measure the instantaneous engine speed better, as it varied with each power stroke cyclically, if I understand it correctly. Obviously the ecu would have to be "smart" enough to use the extra data.

I think that the Doty mount would work with this trigger wheel. The Holley sensor is 12Mx1 so you'll have to ask Doty for a sensor mount with the correct metric thread.

Awesome, I will buy one when they are ready, thanks again for making great products for us mopar guys

I'm interested ... I was planning on cutting a custom one using the dividing head and my milling machine. I bet it would have taken me a weekend and I'd have to make two of them once I figured out where all my design errors were making the first one. Andy - you can save me from all this headache. I have other AR Engineering parts on my car and in my toolbox. Your stuff is top notch. Just let us know when it's available. I always set my crank pulley where it wants to be and then make spacers to get everything else to line up so spacing isn't an issue for me.

I already have a EDIS-8 wheel and the Ford Sensor, Mallory Firestorm ignition box that will do wasted spark. I plan to use some MSD dumb coils that were for a Neon. I'll mount the coils where the distributor used to be on my Wedge motor and hide everything else. Everyone will wonder what type of crazy distributor I'm running.

If you want one just shoot me a PM. I have a couple left from the first batch that I made.

Rich sent me a picture of the trigger signal using this 36-1 wheel and the Holley sensor. Looks nice and crisp and he says that it works with a fairly large gap. This picture was with 0.100 gap but he also shot a picture with 0.200 gap that looked good also.

Good to see a clean signal at those gaps! I never ventured above .060 with any of the ones I've set up(which gave me major problems with a particular snout flexing blower drive) This setup would seem to be more forgiving than the 60-2. Good work!
By the way, I wish my bench scope had a usb port. Gotta get into the modern era. Next thing you know, my phone won't have a hinge in the middle either!

That FastMan Rich - he's such a geek!

I'm going to have to see if I can duplicate that with my OScope. Now I can finally tell my wife why I bought it I wonder if my milling machine will spin the trigger wheel at a stable RPM once it's been running for a bit and everything has temperature stabilized. And that looks like a nice square wave but aren't you really looking for very very slight variations of the time between each rising edge? I guess that if the rising edge is every 10 degrees of crankshaft rotation (36-1), and the signal visibly looks good on the scope, you would have to be looking at an error of less than a degree.

Then, not to overthink this but I wonder if any of the electronics upstream from the trigger signal smooth things out so that you are not driving all the rest of the ignition processing from a raw trigger signal. Maybe I should start a thread on the IEEE or SAE Bulletin Boards. Or maybe I can find more existing content on the MegaSquirt Forum.

Very cool stuff .... That's why I come here ... Thanks once again to AndyF and RichN!!

Thanks Rumble .... Geek's rule!

Monte- I'm running an MSD crank trigger with dist as cam sync and had 0 problems. Only time I ever see timing error is idle (1-2.5% at max as logged on my MS3PRO) which at 20 degrees is only .2-.5 of a degree. On anything above idle the timing error is always 0, have never seen timing error on transient rpm or any type of load above 1200~RPM.

Switching to IGN1A coils now and going distributorless begs the question.. Now I'm ditching the distributor should I goto a 36-1 wheel from the flying magnet.

I went with the SD concepts jeep cam sync adapter to ditch the distributor, I think now I'm just worrying about the crank trigger for nothing again.

Doing the math.. at 7,000 RPM it is checking crank position 466 times per second and verifying 116 times #1 cylinder position.

On a 36 tooth wheel it checks crank position at 4200 times per second but still verifying #1 cylinder position 116 times also.

Being that the thing that matters is #1 cylinder position, the number of times it verifies in-between shouldn't matter as the crankshaft does not change being why we see no difference and no timing error?

Am I on the right thought process?

At 1,000 rpm idle it is only checking the cam position 16 times a second or so with 66 syncs of the crank position. Being at idle the crank accelerates and decelerates on a randomish pattern is why I am seeing the small amount of timing error. When the crankshaft is accelerating only (Or under a load) with more cam sync the timing error goes away.

The MSD flying magnet hasn't failed me or made timing as verified at RPM waiver. So why change to make idle timing error that doesn't really matter (Also the Jesel belt may be stretching .1-.3 of a degree anyways at idle causing the ecu to detect and generate timing error vs belt being under tension at rpm???

It's a dilemma that makes me think if its not broke don't fix it.. but the other side of me thinks.. More info the better. Though is it really when the Cam only syncs once a 4 stroke engine cycle and the crank knows 8 times between that where the crank is.

Maybe I should ditch it and go back to a Chrysler lean burn . Overthinking sometimes hurts.

Yes. At steady state RPM, all crank triggers will be very accurate regardless of the number of teeth. A 4 magnet MSD will be slightly retarded during a quick acceleration because the distance between pulses is changing in real time. Although I can measure this small temporary error electronically I have never seen any effect on the engine dyno.