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H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. #2243273
01/29/17 07:31 AM
01/29/17 07:31 AM
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bdgtfb Offline OP
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can anyone end the debate on H wheel black gloss level - semi gloss or gloss? also did the original wheel lugs have an L stamped on the left hand threaded nut or were the corners of the hex's notched? any help would be appreciated. thanks

Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: bdgtfb] #2243288
01/29/17 10:35 AM
01/29/17 10:35 AM
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Big D A12 Offline
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I will start with the easy answer. Yes, the left hand lugs had a "L" stamped on the side of them. No notches in the lugs I know of.

I can say without a doubt the finish on H wheels was not a "gloss" finish. Semi gloss at best. These wheels came from the M5 factory with a black paint on them. The finish would have then been effected by the cure on any given day. I have seen many different levels of finish on original M5/9 wheels, but none "gloss"

The idea was to keep the cost down as Chrysler knew people were going to run aftermarket wheels. Hence the reason these are so hard to come by, people tossed the originals.

I have a survivor A12 in my shop with it's original H wheels and lugs. I will post some pictures later today. There really is no debate, at least in my eyes.

D


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Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: Big D A12] #2243412
01/29/17 03:39 PM
01/29/17 03:39 PM
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I agree.

I had several NOS wheels and several un-used spares for comparison.

Although the factory did not use flattening agent, because the paint was applied quickly over bare steel, I would describe the appearance as 80% gloss. In other words, the wheels were not as glossy as the exterior of a black car, especially by today's standards.

Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: bdgtfb] #2243419
01/29/17 03:57 PM
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The best gauge of the gloss level is to remove the tire and look in the bead area. Years of washing and dirt abrasion changes the finish on the outside of the wheel.

I agree with dr diff, I think it was gloss paint applied hastily.

Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: NANKET] #2243570
01/29/17 08:06 PM
01/29/17 08:06 PM
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& the "H" wheels were no different than any of the other typical steel wheels (the "cheapness" was across the board) - they were all painted gloss black by the wheel manufacturer

45+ year old "H" wheel between the beads scope

hemi wheel c.jpg
Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: bdgtfb] #2243615
01/29/17 09:44 PM
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were all the H wheels manufactured / painted in the same factory / location? could this account for differing opinions on the gloss level?
we have 2 posters with original rims stating different gloss levels and this seems to be consistent every where I have researched this topic.
Big D A12 were you looking at the bead area of the H wheel? I appreciate you expert opinions
thanks

Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: bdgtfb] #2243666
01/29/17 10:38 PM
01/29/17 10:38 PM
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DoctorDiff Offline
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H wheels were painted just like all the other wheels produced by the same plant.

Compare the paint between the tire beads of a nice original spare to the body paint, then ask yourself if you would be satisfied with that level of sheen on the exterior of the car.

Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: bdgtfb] #2243705
01/30/17 12:01 AM
01/30/17 12:01 AM
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Look at the picture, looks like gloss black. Satin black does not shine like that.

True that they don't look as good as the body of the car, they are painted in a shop environment with no primer or sanding of the surface.

Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: 6bblgt] #2243751
01/30/17 01:31 AM
01/30/17 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted By 6bblgt
& the "H" wheels were no different than any of the other typical steel wheels (the "cheapness" was across the board) - they were all painted gloss black by the wheel manufacturer

45+ year old "H" wheel between the beads scope


Dan - What plant is this wheel from? It does look more "glossy" than I am used to seeing. The H wheels on A12 cars originated at the M5 plant, so only those from that plant should be used for accurate reference.

D


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Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: Big D A12] #2243752
01/30/17 01:39 AM
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Here is an outside picture of an original M5/9 H Wheel dated 4 1. It among others is what I base my previous answer on.

I have not seen the inside of these wheels to answer the question if the finish is different.

D

IMG_2989 W.jpg

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Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: Big D A12] #2243768
01/30/17 02:08 AM
01/30/17 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted By Big D A12
Here is an outside picture of an original M5/9 H Wheel dated 4 1. It among others is what I base my previous answer on.

I have not seen the inside of these wheels to answer the question if the finish is different.

D


Call me crazy, but that might be "correct" if it spent all its life outside in the weather. That rim is way to dull......... work


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Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: NANKET] #2243784
01/30/17 02:33 AM
01/30/17 02:33 AM
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I'm not talking about "satin" (matte) black like GM drivetrain components. I'm talking about "semi-gloss" black, which still has a sheen (1 step below gloss).

Regardless of what you call the paint, if you want to duplicate the look of new OEM steel wheels, they should not be as "glossy" as the exterior of the car. Because painters are more careful in application than the factory, this usually involves a little flattening agent.

Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: DoctorDiff] #2243806
01/30/17 03:19 AM
01/30/17 03:19 AM
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The wheel pictured above is a M5/9 1 -o- 28 6.0 "H" wheel.

H-wheel moparts DSC00939.jpg
Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: Big D A12] #2243836
01/30/17 06:37 AM
01/30/17 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted By Big D A12
I will start with the easy answer. Yes, the left hand lugs had a "L" stamped on the side of them. No notches in the lugs I know of.

I can say without a doubt the finish on H wheels was not a "gloss" finish. Semi gloss at best. These wheels came from the M5 factory with a black paint on them. The finish would have then been effected by the cure on any given day. I have seen many different levels of finish on original M5/9 wheels, but none "gloss"

The idea was to keep the cost down as Chrysler knew people were going to run aftermarket wheels. Hence the reason these are so hard to come by, people tossed the originals.

I have a survivor A12 in my shop with it's original H wheels and lugs. I will post some pictures later today. There really is no debate, at least in my eyes.

D


On the note of keeping costs down, in order to get a matte or lower gloss level doesn't another agent have to be added to paint to make it less glossy, and wouldn't that add cost?

I personally think as noted by Dan that the wheels were (high) gloss black, not semi-gloss or matte. All of the dog dish/hub cap car wheels were high gloss body color finish and if the car was a X9 black car they wouldn't have to paint the wheels to match the car cutting costs or did they paint the black wheels black again shruggy

Have to say the wheels came from the vendor in high gloss black and in little or no time in use would lose the high gloss finish and make it appear they were not gloss......until you take the tire off the first time. Just like body paint is originally high gloss finish and then you lift the carpet or remove a panel and either find it still glossy or dull in area even though you know originally it was glossy 45+ years ago. Just my opinion.

MikeR

Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: A12] #2243838
01/30/17 06:42 AM
01/30/17 06:42 AM
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Last edited by A12; 01/30/17 06:43 AM.
Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: A12] #2243839
01/30/17 06:49 AM
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I know you really can't tell the gloss level from the photos but to me a gloss showroom finish would not be too much of a request of the supplier by the manufacture.

1969-dodge-super-bee-hood.jpg
Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: A12] #2243840
01/30/17 06:54 AM
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They look so much better in high gloss black smile

DSC00640 (2).JPG
Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: A12] #2243841
01/30/17 07:20 AM
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This would have been so much easier if they would have just gone with the original styling department's idea of body colored wheels with no hub caps or wheel covers.........I'm sure they would have been high gloss body color devil


MikeR

(and no d├ęcor package/post b-pillar bright finish and a full horn ring, and removed the antenna for the photo shoot or to make removing the fiberglass lift off hood easier...oh and doesn't look like chrome lug nuts just yet....that's a factory media photo by the way)

6bbl rr 1969 w body color rims and no antenna copyx.jpg
Last edited by A12; 01/30/17 07:26 AM.
Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: A12] #2243857
01/30/17 10:18 AM
01/30/17 10:18 AM
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So back to OP. The debate rages on. I think we are all in agreement that the finish would not have been as sharp as the body paint if it were black.

As discussed, the finish would have been effected by many factors even if it started as gloss black.

Dan, as expected you are thorough in your assessment and I should not doubt your choice of wheel for discussion.

Stewpar, below is a picture of the same wheels yesterday in my shop. The car was a one owner vehicle that is in unbelievable condition. Never driven in the winter and kept inside. I do not think I will be able to buff these up to the luster shown in previous pictures.

Mike, I agree, finish didn't effect cost. My cost reference was purely on the plant applying the least expensive wheel knowing they would be removed. Looking at many M5/9 wheels, quality of paint application was not a priority, hence the varying finishes we are discussing.

Where does this leave us? I think it will be up to the owner of car to discuss with his restorer. We apply a semi to low gloss black on our reproduction wheels. The finish even varies for us in a controlled environment.

D

IMG_6410 web.JPG

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Re: H wheel gloss level / A12 wheel lugs. [Re: A12] #2243879
01/30/17 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted By A12
I know you really can't tell the gloss level from the photos but to me a gloss showroom finish would not be too much of a request of the supplier by the manufacture.


The above pic of the guy taking off his lift off hood reminded me of what a pain those hoods were for a daily driven car ( if the pig would start)....

Thank goodness mine had a vinyl roof so I had somewhere to set the hood....


DSCF0175.JPG
Last edited by minivan; 01/30/17 12:01 PM.
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