If things cant be backed up by real documentation then its just pure speculation.


Thats not directed at anyone here, just my thoughts of all mopar info in general.

Too many times ive seen things "shaped" only to be disproved.

But as for the TA cars, mine has the org. stamped block, so does my friends.

Oddly a t/a motor out of a wrecked chally in the mid 70-s with 6k miles I used for parts had no vin and was a family members and was not replaced.

I havnt looked much into it but ive a block ive thought was always a t/a casting in my old dirt track car dated late 69 because its got the webbing of a t/a block and I dont know of any other block.

Do you guys ever take into account there are alot of t/a cars not put on the web, vins not shared? Not everyone like the internet.

From growing up around many t/a cars, they were beat, beat and beat hard, flogged worse then most hemi cars id seen.

Rev them to the moon or until a rod bearing spun or broke, and many times that was the case.

I have talked to a few registry members who had assumed they had their original blocks - until I called them & told them their original blocks had surfaced.

Some were pulled & replaced early on when the original or later owners had them & they just kept the damaged engines.

For anyone with an AAR or T/A, if you have not checked to see if your numbers matching motor has been reported yet, send me an email.

Same if you have an AAR or T/A block loose or in a car with a partial VIN on it.

Several engines & some transmissions have been reunited with their original cars in the last 20 years, it does happen.

Maybe Little Detroit's original engine will surface.

I started reading the whole thread again since some posts were added while I was out.



So, has anyone with their own theories done this yet?

Also, as Kevin stated;



If your transmission & original & matches your car, the engines & transmissions were stamped one right after the other with the same stamp set. So if one matches & the other has a blank VIN pad, it was replaced at some point.

Impossible to answer, there is no way to know that.

I'll quote myself from page 1;



The builds were also mixed with other models, other engines, other trim levels.

So, without actual build records from Chrysler, the question is impossible to answer.

My registration forms have a line saying that personal data will not be given out.

There are a lot of people who do not want there VINs posted. If they choose too, that is up to them - it is not my place to do so.

I am not going to betray the trust they have put in me by posting data on their cars just to satisfy your request.

Dang, I missed a fun post.

There are no experts or gods or disciples here in this thread. Chill out dude. lol

Dang! Now I feel insulted!

Not.

You need to relax dude.

I was clearing out my spare tool box the other day and ran across this. Though you guys might dig it.

That was in response to Charles when he asked;



I do not have one. I have seen one, but I do not recall who had it. Ken mentioned that he is looking for one, Bangert is also looking.

So, 'I can not share what I do not have." Got it?




OK, so you want the research of others to be dumped in your lap but you are not checking what you have access too?

Well, hopefully you now have a better understanding since I tried to clear some of it up?

But you do come across as insulting.

You have a wild theory. I have nothing to prove it, so the burden of proof is on you, not me.

Some questions have no answers, hopefully I explained that above to your satisfaction.

But start with the dates & stamps on your own car. Start your own spread sheet of the date coded items. No need to share it, just do it for yourself.

I did that with my 4-door Valiant. 403 SPD, March sticker, Hamtramck build, numbers match. It was a fun exercise, nothing found on the car past the first few days of the last week of March.

Researching your own car is fun, try it.

If calling it names in the process makes you feel better, go for it.

lol

so if I understand you correctly everybody donated their the info of their car to you and for what reason was it again? Was it just for your own personal pleasure? It seams that you may have already violated some of their trusts, check out your own website and past posts. I assume that by personal info you relating that to car info correct? Your attitude in your post 1/28/17 @ 12:17 pm really explains the whole "Mopar God " thing and really can't get over the bloody snot rag you posted, the maturity of a 12 year old, and you expect people to take you seriously? As I said earlier I think I'll get along just fine without your help. I can see that your arrogance is leading down the same path as the other guy.

One main purpose of a registry is reuniting original items, broadcast sheets, engines, transmissions etc.

The photo was posted to show I really was sick since some doubt was apparent. I can not afford a doctor visit, so a doc's note was not in the cards. I am not over it entirely yet, but I am feeling a lot better. Thanks for your concern.

I have mentioned ways you can help yourself gain knowledge. Start with your own car. You have access to it, we do not.

I have no expectations on how people perceive me. From the amount of email I got about this thread alone though, I think that most people are quite OK with me.

You have an interesting theory, so do some research. Start with your own car with the things noted by a few here about what to look at.

Happy hunting, research is fun.

I mentioned the spreadsheet I started for my March built, 403 SPD 1970 Valiant. Here is a list of some of the date coded items these cars can have. Obviously, some will not apply to an AAR. (AC as one example)

This list was compiled with help from Scott Smith, Dan Pausch, Kent Johnston, Ola Nilsson, Robert Schirmer & Grant Piche.

You can enter the relevant data into a spread sheet for your AAR if you choose to.

You may also find date codes on other parts to add in as you go.

AC clutch field coil *
A/C evaporator/drier *
AC hose *
Air Grabber switch
Alternator
Battery
Bellhousing *
Blower motor *
Bumper jack mechanism
Calipers *
Caliper mounts *
Carburetor
Carpet tag – front
Carpet tag - rear
Clock
Coil
Console *
Convertible boot cover
Dash pad *
Differential ring gear
Dimmer switch
Distributor
Door jamb switches
Door panels *
Engine casting date
Engine final assembly date
Engine mounts *
Exhaust manifolds
Engine main bearings
Engine rod bearings
Fan belt *
Fuel pump *
Gauge cluster
Harmonic balancer
Headlight switch
Heads
Headlights
Headlight door motors
Heater box *
Heater fan / AC switch *
Hood hinges *
Hood latch
Horn
Horn Relay *
Horn switch
Intake manifold
K-frame
Lower control arms
Muffler(s)
Mylar door sticker
Oil sender *
Outside mirror glass *
Plug wires *
Power steering belt *
Power steering hose *
Power steering pump final assembly day *
Power window motors
Radiator
Radio
Rear window defogger
Rear window defogger switch
Rear end gear housing casting date
Rear valence
Scheduled production date from fender tag
Seat belts
Seat frame - rear, bottom
Seat frame - rear, top
Seat frame(s) front
Seat tracks front
Seat upholstery
Shocks *
Space Saver spare inflator bottle
Speaker(s)
Starter nose
Starter case
Steering column *
Steering pulley *
Sure grip carrier
Tachometer
Temp sender *
Thermostat housing *
Tires
Transmission casting date
Transmission final assembly date
Transmission mount *
Transmission tail shaft
Trunk mat *
Torsion bars *
U-joint straps
Vinyl top
Voltage regulator
Washer motor
Water pump *
Water pump housing *
Wheels
Windows
Wiper motor
Wiper motor switch

Another example.

My T/A had a 417 scheduled production date.

The final assembly date on the numbers matching engine was April 22nd.

The Mylar door sticker showed April.

So, based on those three things, I deduced that it was built later than hoped for (after the SPD) but before May.

So, sometime after April 22 but no later than April 30.

I do safety certification for a major OEM and use to work for Chrysler back in the day. What is being referred to as the the mylar is the safety certification label (already discussed) that is required by the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) to be applied to a vehicle as it completes its production and certifies that the car meets all safety regulations in effect on the day of production and can be sold to the public. Once a vehicle is certified, it can not be uncertified. The month and year of production must be the month and year shown on the label, but mistakes can and are occasionally made and since this label is not part of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) (Part 571 of the CFR), it is not recallable if incorrect and would be considered an inconsequential non compliance if the date was wrong because someone in the factory did not update the software or typeset. That does not preclude a vehicle from being certified. Also, since the label is typically put on on the final assembly line, the vehicle still has some "build" to go through, which includes the rolls test, usually one of the last things before the vehicle is shipped, If something goes wrong on the rolls, such as they blow they engine, it would go to the repair hole, where it may sit for a while until there is time to work on it, especially if it requires an engine change. If it was an engine change at the factory, they would restamp the VIN on the block before they shipped it, as that is a anti theft requirement. So it is feasible that a vehicle has a March build date and an April engine if 1) the Cert Label was incorrectly printed or 2) there was an engine failure after the cert label was applied and the engine was replaced in the factory because the cert label would not be updated in this situation because you can not uncertify and re-certify a vehicle.
I did not read the entire post, so I hope this point has not already been discussed.
My 2-cents.

But......

If an engine were replaced, re-stamped or not - it is still not the original engine.

Correct, it is the second engine in the vehicle, just a thought on how this could happen.

So, if a car were to leave the factory and be sold at a dealership without its "original engine", would this have to be disclosed to potential buyers in order to avoid federal fraud charges?

To the factory, what is/was "original" and "matching numbers"?

Again, don't forget these cars were rushed to market to meet SCCA requirements and this was the 1970 model year which broke sales records for Chrysler across the board. Having woked in factory environments, I have no doubt that shortcuts were taken and rules broken. I can almost hear bosses from the top down screaming "Who cares? Just get the damn cars out the door!"

Replacing an engine at the factory is not fraud and does not need to be disclosed. There are many repairs done to vehicles in the plant for a variety of reasons, none of which are disclosed to the eventual buyer. The plant buys off on the vehicle as complete as ordered and safety and emissions certified and basically sells it to the sales arm. If there is damage in transit, then local and state laws take over as to what needs to be disclosed to the buyer, for example, in Michigan, more than $750 in repaired shipping damage needs to be disclosed.