Re: How much is too much hard block
[Re: ccdave]
#2239084
01/22/17 04:13 PM
01/22/17 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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The thing with hard block is your trying to stabilize the center area of the bores.. with a short fill your really not doing anything and IMO is a waste and just added weight.. so if you fill high enough to do what its intended to do then you run into the hot oil issue and IMO a oil cooler is needed.. even then the oil still gets fairly warm.. and as in any time the oil gets heated up it gets thinner(viscosity) and pressure gets lower... I have had a engine with it on the streets and it did get the oil hot.. so I dont add it to any street car engine... JMO.. but since its already done use a good synthetic oil and a cooler
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Re: How much is too much hard block
[Re: mopar dave]
#2239090
01/22/17 04:16 PM
01/22/17 04:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
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Two things I've heard from respected sources on oil temps, petroleum based oils will start to change molecure structure, go bad, close to 300F and be destroying itself at 325F. Molil 1 synthetics oils are supoose to be good to 500F before being hurt On the blocks with fill I have seen a filled 340 block prepared by Greg Lunatic ( ) on the engine dyno at Pettis performance have 180F on the outside of the block at or below the fill line and 130 F above the fill line using a hand held infra red temp gun I had freshen it for the owners and built them a complete new R1 block non filled spare motor, guess which one made the most power
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: How much is too much hard block
[Re: mopar dave]
#2239099
01/22/17 04:23 PM
01/22/17 04:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273
PA.
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I'm not a big E85 guy as I went straight to alcohol but if I had a high performance street strip car I would be running E85. That would probably help your cooling issues too.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: How much is too much hard block
[Re: mopar dave]
#2239136
01/22/17 04:58 PM
01/22/17 04:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544
Las Vegas
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FWIW our filled block has been together and in the car since 2001 and never had any issues. I run an oil cooler for insurance, never have seen oil temps over 230-240 and that is only after sustained highway jaunts. Car make 750+ HP fwiw as well and we never ran it without the cooler either. Saw no need wanted it just to make sure.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: How much is too much hard block
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2239157
01/22/17 05:14 PM
01/22/17 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I'm not a big E85 guy as I went straight to alcohol but if I had a high performance street strip car I would be running E85. That would probably help your cooling issues too. Cooling the water isnt a issue.. even with E-85 the cyl and head temps will be the same if your burning good and that transfers over to the oil in the most part
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Re: How much is too much hard block
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2239248
01/22/17 06:35 PM
01/22/17 06:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Not a fan of engine oil coolers.
Please explain. Because most guys run a cooler that is too small, they use crap fittings and hose a mile long and, I'd bet very few here have ever checked the pressure drop across an oil cooler. I have. Unless it's very expensive, it's horrible. 8 quarts in the pan and a QUALITY oil and forget it.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: How much is too much hard block
[Re: madscientist]
#2239271
01/22/17 06:58 PM
01/22/17 06:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Doug my engine machinist forbid me to fill my 512 block even tho it was for strip only, told me the wall thickness is plenty suffiecent and that filling will change the temp at the lower end of the bore to cause piston scuffing and different wear charistics, now that said I did a half fill on my strip only 408 small block and have noticed that the oil pressure would drop quite a bit the more I ran it and had me concerned during round robin passes at the end of the class run's, is it because of the excess temp in the oil? don't know but that would make sense to me,,oh and by the way I ran Brad Penn 20W50 semi synthetic, proof will be in the teardown and freshen-up.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: How much is too much hard block
[Re: mopar dave]
#2239383
01/22/17 09:47 PM
01/22/17 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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one thing good about this issue is the thin cylinder shouldn't move around much, preventing any cracks. maybe I could add a power adder and put the boost right to it. with the aluminum caps I would think it should be a solid piece. JMO... but the filler shrinks a bit so dont think you wont crack a cyl.. I did it twice on the same cyl on the same block.. but it wasnt a tall fill.. so I dont think it was up where you need to help stiffen the cyl walls EDIT Thats why some dont see any change in the bore because it shrinks back a bit and doesnt PUSH on the walls
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 01/22/17 09:50 PM.
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