First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter?

Print Thread

Page 1 of 2

1

2

First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? #2161430 09/25/16 03:51 PM 09/25/16 03:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE C Charger453 OP super stock
Charger453 OP super stock C Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE	The car is a 70 Charger, just under 3800# with me in the seat. Combo is: 499" low deck, 13:1 on e85 Ported -1 heads, flow 355/275 @.750 Porter spec'd solid roller 268/274, .785/.746 with the 1.7 Jesels. Cam has a 110 lobe separation, installed at 106.5 ICL. 4500 Indy intake with plenum mods and port matched. 1150 Dominator from Horsepower Innovations 2-2 1/8 TTI step headers, 3 1/2" exhaust dumped at the axle. The current converter is a 9.5 PTC that was built for an old combo. Being in a hurry, I let a local shop take a crack at adjusting the stall speed. I requested 4800-4900 flash. It only goes to 4300. I have a 3.55 rear gear with a 28x10.5 slick. The 727 trans does have a low gear set. My first trip to the track just a couple weeks ago netted 3 passes that were all 6.52-6.54 @ 108.1-108.2 with 1.54-1.56 60's in decent summer air for here, 2500 DA. I love the streetability of the 3.55s, but what am I really giving up by not running a 3.91? In your opinion will I see more gains getting the converter loosened up to around 5,000 by PTC or going to a 3.91 gear? I'm actually pleased with the ET considering the current setup, but obviously I'm leaving a lot on the table judging by the slow 60', but good MPH.

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161442 09/25/16 04:10 PM 09/25/16 04:10 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,201 aZLiViN J J_BODY I Live Here
J_BODY I Live Here J Joined: May 2003 Posts: 13,201 aZLiViN	can you make a 9.5 converter flash at 5K with out like 900 hp? I've never tried to make a car that heavy fast so I'm not really sure. My Mirada was 3380 and that had a 9" 4200 stall in it. Of course it was a tractor engine shifting at 5800 rpm, 4.10 gear and 29.5 tall slick. personally with your ride I'd be looking at least a 4.10 gear to get the weight moving. Low gear set would be interesting....but abhorrently expensive.

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161443 09/25/16 04:11 PM 09/25/16 04:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,011 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart I Live Here
gregsdart I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,011 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	The converter will help the most. The big question is just how much slip going to 5,000 stall will create. Call PTC and give them your specs and they can give you an idea of what to expect. The car definitely should respond to the higher stall, especially with the 3.55 gears. 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161446 09/25/16 04:15 PM 09/25/16 04:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,251 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,251 Bend,OR USA	I've never raced or tested a car that is like yours, weight, C.I. and so on. I have tested 3.73,3.91,4.10 and finally 4.30 in my old 3450 lb Duster with a pump gas low deck 518 C.I. with both a 10 inch converter and then a 8 inch race T/A SS hemi converter. That car ran mid tens(10.49) at 127 MPH in the 1/4 mile with the ten inch converter, it ran low 10.30 at 127 MPH with the 8 inch converter The gears didn't make much differences in the 60 fts, 330,660 or 1/4 mph with the 10 inch converter, the 8 inch converter flat worked way better than the 10 inch did It was easier to drive in the pits and on the street and race at the track Make sure and buy a very good converter, don't cut corners on them I've heard really good things on this forum about Lenny at Ultimate converters, same thing on Lupo Dynamic converters, T/A, A-1 and several others Good luck, let us know what you do and the results please. Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/25/16 04:16 PM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161454 09/25/16 04:25 PM 09/25/16 04:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE C Charger453 OP super stock
Charger453 OP super stock C Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE	You can definitely make a 9.5" flash to 5k. I had an only Dynamic that was 4,400 on my old 453 low deck. Once I added a Procharger, it went to 5,000. I sold that and my old 4.10 center section. A Procharger, 5,000 stall, 4.10s, a small tire, a marginal track, and a low gear set in the trans wasn't working well. I think a call to PTC is in order because I do wonder how that high of a stall would work with 3.55s. I'd really like to keep the gearing if I'm only going to see .10 or so in the 1/8. I literally drive the heck out of this thing compared to guys with similar cars. I think the low gear set I have in the trans has to make it seem like a 3.91 in first compared to having a stock ratio gear set. I'm guessing my 60' should be low 1.40s for the ET and that MPH should be good for 6.30s??? At least that's what I hope to see with a change.

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161456 09/25/16 04:30 PM 09/25/16 04:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit OUTLAWD top fuel
OUTLAWD top fuel Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit	On my street car I have a Lupo 9.5". It flashes to 4750 rpm on motor behind my mild 493 with 3.55's and a 28" tire, so it's possible. My combo is only ~400-450 rwhp. With ~100hp worth of giggle juice, it flashed to 5000 rpm. Slippage at the stripe was ~9% last time I did the math, though. I agree with Cab, huge gains won't happen with gears if you have a good converter. Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death... 71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts 66 Belv. II - just a streetcar 88 Mustang - turbo LS beater

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161458 09/25/16 04:32 PM 09/25/16 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA Dave Hall top fuel
Dave Hall top fuel Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA	If it's an 8-3/4 why not build a center with say 4.30's or 4.56 that you could plop in for track use? If it's a Dana I understand not wanting the tractor gears for the street. Maybe you could have fun with a 4.10. I agree with not enough converter as well. 8" is what you need and should go to 6,000. Nice car making great power!

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161463 09/25/16 04:40 PM 09/25/16 04:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	If you get a converter that's really dialed in for that combo it should me worth more than the gears...... But I don't think either is going to make a "big" difference. Is it dead hooking now? 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161465 09/25/16 04:47 PM 09/25/16 04:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE C Charger453 OP super stock
Charger453 OP super stock C Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE	Ok, we all seem to agree on a converter. I know there's plenty of similar combos out there so... I'm thinking I'll request a flash of 5,000. Reason being, this MAY see a 150-200 shot next year. I don't want the converter to be too loose on spray. Does 5,000 sound about right or where should I try to be? It also feels like it stops pulling around 7200. I've been shifting around 6700. Crazy how my first couple of passes at a "conservative" 34° of timing were the fastest passes. I've gone 3-4 jet sizes up and down, advanced timing to 38, and it didn't pick up. Eric at Horsepower Innovations must have got the fueling spot on. I gotta plug that guy. His customer service is top notch for anyone considering e85.

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2161466 09/25/16 04:49 PM 09/25/16 04:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE C Charger453 OP super stock
Charger453 OP super stock C Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth If you get a converter that's really dialed in for that combo it should me worth more than the gears...... But I don't think either is going to make a "big" difference. Is it dead hooking now? Yep, zero tire spin. I wish it was easy to post a video. This thing leaves LAZY. I'm really seeing if something can get me into the 6.30s. I told myself I'd be damn happy if I got 6.50s as is and it did.

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161472 09/25/16 04:56 PM 09/25/16 04:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE C Charger453 OP super stock
Charger453 OP super stock C Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE	A couple videos. It looks lazy and feels lazy when my old 453 n/a low deck went 1.44 to the 60'. That, however, had 4.10s and a 4,400 converter with Eddy RPM heads. https://youtu.be/1JQYHzAsBIg https://youtu.be/KWRbz9IwU_Q Last edited by Charger453; 09/25/16 05:06 PM.

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161499 09/25/16 05:54 PM 09/25/16 05:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio S Sport440 master
Sport440 master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio	Another yes on the vert, though I feel the 4300 vert you have should be doing better then what it is. 4800 to 5200 is where I would want to be on the vert. If your 60,s were where they were supposed to be for the et, they would be like 1.43 But with whsat you ran if it did 60 1.43 you would be running 6.40s The inline 60 for that et is 1.39 1.40

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161509 09/25/16 06:09 PM 09/25/16 06:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion	Originally Posted By Charger453 The car is a 70 Charger, just under 3800# with me in the seat. Combo is: 499" low deck, 13:1 on e85 Ported -1 heads, flow 355/275 @.750 Porter spec'd solid roller 268/274, .785/.746 with the 1.7 Jesels. Cam has a 110 lobe separation, installed at 106.5 ICL. 4500 Indy intake with plenum mods and port matched. 1150 Dominator from Horsepower Innovations 2-2 1/8 TTI step headers, 3 1/2" exhaust dumped at the axle. The current converter is a 9.5 PTC that was built for an old combo. Being in a hurry, I let a local shop take a crack at adjusting the stall speed. I requested 4800-4900 flash. It only goes to 4300. I have a 3.55 rear gear with a 28x10.5 slick. The 727 trans does have a low gear set. My first trip to the track just a couple weeks ago netted 3 passes that were all 6.52-6.54 @ 108.1-108.2 with 1.54-1.56 60's in decent summer air for here, 2500 DA. I love the streetability of the 3.55s, but what am I really giving up by not running a 3.91? In your opinion will I see more gains getting the converter loosened up to around 5,000 by PTC or going to a 3.91 gear? I'm actually pleased with the ET considering the current setup, but obviously I'm leaving a lot on the table judging by the slow 60', but good MPH. Carb.............. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161537 09/25/16 07:27 PM 09/25/16 07:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 595 Nashville, Tennessee Tempest mopar
Tempest mopar Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 595 Nashville, Tennessee	Originally Posted By Charger453 You can definitely make a 9.5" flash to 5k. I had an only Dynamic that was 4,400 on my old 453 low deck. Once I added a Procharger, it went to 5,000. I sold that and my old 4.10 center section. A Procharger, 5,000 stall, 4.10s, a small tire, a marginal track, and a low gear set in the trans wasn't working well. I think a call to PTC is in order because I do wonder how that high of a stall would work with 3.55s. I'd really like to keep the gearing if I'm only going to see .10 or so in the 1/8. I literally drive the heck out of this thing compared to guys with similar cars. I think the low gear set I have in the trans has to make it seem like a 3.91 in first compared to having a stock ratio gear set. I'm guessing my 60' should be low 1.40s for the ET and that MPH should be good for 6.30s??? At least that's what I hope to see with a change. It went from 4,400 to 5,000 because of the Procharger. HP/TQ is going to change the stall speed significantly. So yes as posted above, a tighter converter will stall higher with more power. I put the same 8" behind two different motors, the stall speed was 1,000 RPM different. Last edited by Tempest; 09/25/16 07:32 PM.

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161570 09/25/16 08:32 PM 09/25/16 08:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE C Charger453 OP super stock
Charger453 OP super stock C Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE	Yeah, I realized why the stall changed with the addition of a Procharger. That is exactly why my last few converters have been spec'd by PTC and Dynamic, and why this one will go back to PTC. The converter in question was originally spec'd for the Procharger combination.

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Thumperdart] #2161571 09/25/16 08:34 PM 09/25/16 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE C Charger453 OP super stock
Charger453 OP super stock C Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 867 Bellevue, NE	Originally Posted By Thumperdart [quote=Charger453] Carb.............. Lol I thought you might say that. Carb seems good. You messing with e85 yet?

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161697 09/26/16 12:04 AM 09/26/16 12:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	It feels lazy...... Cuz it is lazy. Big(ish) heads, big(ish) intake, big(ish) cam, big carb, big headers,.....heavy car, tall gears, not enough stall. It's just not a culmination of parts that's going to hit hard. While the 60' is a little weak, the 6.5x seems pretty strong to me for the "overall" combo. Basically, to fully exploit that engine package you'd have to make it where you'd lose most of the "streetability" aspect of the car. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161731 09/26/16 12:58 AM 09/26/16 12:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 21 Chicagoland Area T TheCragarKing member
TheCragarKing member T Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 21 Chicagoland Area	I got a 9" for sale that stalled @ about 4800 behind what I had... Betcha it'll stall around 5000 behind your application. PM me if interested. Last of the V8's ~67 Coronet 440

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161759 09/26/16 01:46 AM 09/26/16 01:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ M MoparBilly master
MoparBilly master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ	No way I would touch the converter at this point, especially if you intend to add nitrous anytime soon. If you really need more stall, get a smaller converter. When you loosen those 9.5-10 inch units up that much you get a heat building pig that feels sloppy on the street. "Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines

Re: First passes...Help me spend my $. Gears or converter? [Re: Charger453] #2161900 09/26/16 11:36 AM 09/26/16 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,377 Marion, South Carolina [><] an8sec70cuda I Live Here
an8sec70cuda I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,377 Marion, South Carolina [><]	If you plan on running N/A, you need a better converter. If you plan on spraying it...leave it alone. CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax

Page 1 of 2

1

2

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1