Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: jcc]
#2116880
07/24/16 10:35 PM
07/24/16 10:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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The seat mounts DO NOT hold the seat in the car. For Christ sakes, Pro-Mods and similar have the damn seats held in with dzus fasteners. You think those keep the seat in the car in the event of a crash? The BELTS hold you AND the seat in the car. If your belts let you and the seat move around a lot in the event of a crash......either the belts are not mounted correctly OR you did not have them tight enough That is very dangerous advice in the op's context. NO it's not and if you don't understand, you have ZERO clue about building a REAL race car. All you internet know it alls and wannabe engineers do more harm than anyone. You can't possibly mount a poly or an aluminum seat well enough that the seats mounts alone will contain the seat and a 200 pound driver in the event of a hard crash. As far as seats not fitting, if yours doesn't, it's your own damn fault for not buying the right seat. They also make "pour in" kits that are required by the rules in faster classes. It's a mixture in a bag, you sit in the seat suited up, it conforms to your exact shape and hardens. And what I said above about the belts and mounts is 100% true and I could really care less if you think it is bad advice or not. The fact that Pro-Mods, Pro-Stocks, whatever, shed parts during a crash is irrelevant to this discussion. Anything that is outside the drivers compartment doesn't matter. The carbon body weighs 40lbs and is mounted with tiny tubing and dzus fasteners. Well of course it is coming off......it's supposed to. But at the end of the crash, when the fully intact drivers compartment is sitting there with the driver and seat still held in by properly mounted belts, the rest simply doesn't matter And in this context, it doesn't matter if the car is a street car, a pro-mod or a dragster, the MOUNTS do NOT contain the seat. It's the BELTS and always has been
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 07/24/16 10:44 PM.
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2116917
07/24/16 11:23 PM
07/24/16 11:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295
Here
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A seat belt only restrains a person AGAINST a surface (seat/mountings). If that surface does not resist the forces the body presents AGAINST the seat, a seat belt's usefulness is of reduced benefit in a dynamic multi impact typical crash. I hope our readers care, its their well being at stake.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: E-Ticket]
#2117110
07/25/16 08:55 AM
07/25/16 08:55 AM
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crabman173
Unregistered
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crabman173
Unregistered
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wow folks use what you want just please mount it right and mount belts correctly per makers instructions
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: Airwoofer]
#2119975
07/28/16 05:43 PM
07/28/16 05:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,656 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,656
fredericksburg,va
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The biggest concern I have now with my plastic seats in the Demon is the rear brace just being a tube ended with a 2 sq inch plate that ponts right at my backbone. In a rear impact it would skewer my back. I will be putting a formed plate there before it hits the street / track again - both seats. My buddy was "big" In the bottom area so I heated the poly seat with a torch, then he would set in it to "form" to his butt. Had to water down his butt after each fitting. LOL
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: sgcuda]
#2120180
07/28/16 09:56 PM
07/28/16 09:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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I've always used the poly seats with the cover. The seat itself is too light to worry about pulling out the inserts. The harness is what keeps you in place. As long as you have good mounts on the straps, you aren't going anywhere. I use the 2 piece mounts and angle the seat to where is comfortable for me. I can almost fall asleep in my seat. Poly, 6 bolts through the floor and one to roll bar. Aint coming loose. Close to stock position ( height and angle ). Within roll bar parameters. Very comfortable- a biggie if you are stuck in staging for any length of time. Make sure you can reach all controls after you are cinched in. Belt mounting = Factory floor mounts for lap belts, fish plated ( floor )dive belt, roll bar for shoulder belts.
Last edited by Crizila; 08/04/16 03:48 PM.
Fastest 300
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: E-Ticket]
#2124342
08/03/16 09:53 PM
08/03/16 09:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,318 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,318
Fulton County, PA
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Aluminum, specifically the Jaz or the small Kirkey over the big pro street Kirkey. Or on a tube chassis, street roaster, dragster type car, the single panel carbon or fiberglass seat that attaches or Dzuses into a tubular seat frame that is part of the chassis. I've tried to steer guys away from the plastic bucket seats. Whatever way you go, the mounting is critical. The best seat in the world is no good if it comes loose.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: E-Ticket]
#2124413
08/03/16 10:53 PM
08/03/16 10:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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We even mount the alum seats with dzus fasteners. You build a front loop off the floor that supports the front of the seat out of usually 1/2 tubing. Also bend a loop off the rear crossbar from same tubing to support back of seat. Then you can also run some pieces of 1/2 tubing from rear loop to front loop, bent to seat contour. Seat is basically sitting in a tubing frame and mounted with dzus fasteners. With the belts mounted right, you could just sit the seat in the frame and it isn't going anywhere. This type mount can be built in ANY car with ease and is 10 times better than some bolts through the bottom of the seat. You can also mount a poly seat the same way, by cutting a large enough hole in the inner shell to mount the dzus. Just because a poly seat has some weak threaded inserts in the bottom, doesn't mean you have to mount it with them. With this setup, the seat sits in a cradle. VERY safe, VERY strong, VERY secure
Many ask "whats the point of the seat dzusing out quickly"......answer that question after you need to lay in the floor to work under the dash on a car with a cage
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 08/03/16 11:01 PM.
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: E-Ticket]
#2124701
08/04/16 11:09 AM
08/04/16 11:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368 michigan
turbo toad
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368
michigan
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Monte can you post some pics of mounting cradle or pm me some. Ill be doing some chassis mods over the winter and I like the idea of being able to remove the drivers seat. Thanks in advance
Check out my build on Facebook Ttoad Hurley its updated regularly
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: E-Ticket]
#2125203
08/04/16 09:02 PM
08/04/16 09:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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My favorite is when someone installs the shoulder harness/belts through the stupid holes in the seats and they come out below your shoulders, during an accident, you will get spinal compression. Always have your belts positioned above the shoulders just slightly to minimize the angle and stretch in an accident.
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: astjp2]
#2125250
08/04/16 10:19 PM
08/04/16 10:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,318 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,318
Fulton County, PA
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My favorite is when someone installs the shoulder harness/belts through the stupid holes in the seats and they come out below your shoulders, during an accident, you will get spinal compression. Always have your belts positioned above the shoulders just slightly to minimize the angle and stretch in an accident. I will agree, the belts should not be excessively pulled up or down by the opening in the seat. Ideally the belts should be deflected very little by the seat between the drivers shoulders and the mounting point and I've changed the openings in the seat to correct this for tall or short driver situations. Beyond that, the mounting locations for belts in racecars are pretty specific and spelled out in the rulebooks.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2125357
08/05/16 12:10 AM
08/05/16 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Well mine go thru that slot... it keeps them on your shoulders .. see what happens if they slide off your shoulders
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: astjp2]
#2125413
08/05/16 01:23 AM
08/05/16 01:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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My favorite is when someone installs the shoulder harness/belts through the stupid holes in the seats and they come out below your shoulders, during an accident, you will get spinal compression. Always have your belts positioned above the shoulders just slightly to minimize the angle and stretch in an accident. That's incorrect and will get you bounced in tech. The belts have to hold you and the seat DOWN in a rollover, so therefore have to be below the shoulder or at a minimum level with
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Re: Poly Seat or Aluminum??
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2125715
08/05/16 02:01 PM
08/05/16 02:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295
Here
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My favorite is when someone installs the shoulder harness/belts through the stupid holes in the seats and they come out below your shoulders, during an accident, you will get spinal compression. Always have your belts positioned above the shoulders just slightly to minimize the angle and stretch in an accident. That's incorrect and will get you bounced in tech. The belts have to hold you and the seat DOWN in a rollover, so therefore have to be below the shoulder or at a minimum level with Wrong, if you are referring to the shoulder belts in your quote. Tell us again how many cars you built. Trevor Ashline, "Hutchens": "The key to all restraint is the pelvis. Federal government safety studies indicate the pelvis can take loads up to 130gs, compared to 80gs for the chest and 60gs for the head. If you can control the pelvis, it is easier to control the movement of the torso and then the head and neck. A properly mounted lap belt and six-point harness can reduce the pelvic movement by 40 to 50 percent over a standard five-point system." Butler Racing seats: "Shoulder Harness Shoulder harnesses should be positioned in such a manner to pull perpendicular to the drivers spine. "
Last edited by jcc; 08/05/16 03:32 PM.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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