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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: moparroad] #2115847
07/22/16 10:15 PM
07/22/16 10:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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I don't have a horse in this race, and I have no recent experience with them, so just my 2¢?
Sounds like their engineering is on track (useful features, no fantasy).

It's their financial plan that makes me nervous. A business that size should have no problem floating their R&D costs from their bank. The loan interest is part of the overhead - everyone does it (the garment district uses nothing else for 100 years).
When they ask for that much money, they're telling you they can't pay their light bill. When it's still not done, 2 years from now, they'll ask you for another $1000 toward the new 2019 price of $5500. You already agreed to "no refund".
Trust me: the money isn't in escrow, and they will refuse any request for a financial statement ("where did the money go?"). It went to rent and salaries, like it always does.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: polyspheric] #2115873
07/22/16 11:14 PM
07/22/16 11:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229
In The Hills
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jughed Offline
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In The Hills
Originally Posted By polyspheric

When they ask for that much money, they're telling you they can't pay their light bill. When it's still not done, 2 years from now, they'll ask you for another $1000 toward the new 2019 price of $5500. You already agreed to "no refund".
Trust me: the money isn't in escrow, and they will refuse any request for a financial statement ("where did the money go?"). It went to rent and salaries, like it always does.


...OR maybe because there could always be that someone who will order a block with custom work done to it and then back out of the deal because of whatever reason. And who gets stuck when that happens??
I don't blame MM at all for covering their @** by requesting a down payment.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: moparroad] #2115881
07/22/16 11:19 PM
07/22/16 11:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,381
Abilene, Texas
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fastmark Offline
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Abilene, Texas
I've done that before, pay me half and when the project is done, you'll get the product. Yea, right. I got screwed. No thanks, not again.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: fastmark] #2115893
07/22/16 11:34 PM
07/22/16 11:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
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PorkyPig Offline
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I wonder how many working prototypes they have in service that prove the reliability of the product. If paying customers are the defacto R&D team, that doesn't bode well for the early adopters.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: PorkyPig] #2115949
07/23/16 01:42 AM
07/23/16 01:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395
The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic Offline
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The Pale Blue Dot
Does anybody KNOW what they mean by "small bore" and "big bore"?

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: polyspheric] #2115955
07/23/16 02:16 AM
07/23/16 02:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,049
San Jose Ca.
boatracer572 Offline
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San Jose Ca.
Originally Posted By polyspheric
I don't have a horse in this race, and I have no recent experience with them, so just my 2¢?
Sounds like their engineering is on track (useful features, no fantasy).

It's their financial plan that makes me nervous. A business that size should have no problem floating their R&D costs from their bank. The loan interest is part of the overhead - everyone does it (the garment district uses nothing else for 100 years).
When they ask for that much money, they're telling you they can't pay their light bill. When it's still not done, 2 years from now, they'll ask you for another $1000 toward the new 2019 price of $5500. You already agreed to "no refund".
Trust me: the money isn't in escrow, and they will refuse any request for a financial statement ("where did the money go?"). It went to rent and salaries, like it always does.



iagree
sounds like a block company I delt with in sothern California all over again...... what a mistake that was!!!!!

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: Skeptic] #2115961
07/23/16 02:56 AM
07/23/16 02:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
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Sydney,Australia
Originally Posted By Skeptic
Does anybody KNOW what they mean by "small bore" and "big bore"?


Maybe 4.320" and 4.5" bores . At least in the RB

Tex

Last edited by tex013; 07/23/16 02:56 AM.

New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: turbo toad] #2115986
07/23/16 04:56 AM
07/23/16 04:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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jim sciortino Offline
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Trumbull,CT.
Originally Posted By turbo toad
Heres the info i just got from the guys at muscle motors take it for what it is.........heres the response i got asking about there low deck block.

Yes its true. We will have a machined block next weekend at the Monster Mopar show @ Norwalk. We will also have them at the Mopar Nations in Columbus a few weeks after that. Yes we have a cross bolted, big bore 400 block available. 400 or 440 main sizing is available and well as big diameter cams. Priority main oiling and oil to the lifters is standard. We don't anticipate having inventory for about a year. Everything is built to order for right now. $1700 deposit gets your place in line. then 6-8 weeks we will be ready to deliver the block and the balance is due when it is ready to ship.

All block B, RB wedge, RB Hemi all start @$3800 and are small bore

Big bore
big cam
Big main in 400 block
cross bolt #5
Bushed lifter bores
Are all upgrades and will incur additional cost.

Cast and machined in the USA, steel billet caps and ARP main studs std.
It's good to hear somebody is trying to supply blocks, but......

A 300# iron block, with a 4.500 bore, a 55/60mm tunnel, all five cross-bolted and bushed lifter bores, will cost what.....somewhere around $5500 to $6000 BEFORE a lightening program???

Yikes. What's left of my bankbook clearly shows I have no problem spending money on this stuff, but that's in the vacinity of aluminum block money, only without the general repairability and a 150+ pound heavier car.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: moparroad] #2116095
07/23/16 12:50 PM
07/23/16 12:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
Let me be clear (who said that!).
I don't mean NO deposit - that's the only practical way to estimate production volume. The "I think I'd definitely maybe take one, if my Mom lets me" (responses to aluminum head for the slant 6) are completely worthless both as to intent and as a binder.

1. must have a non-refundable deposit, but with an escape clause like if no block in 1 year or price jump above $200 = 75% refund; after 2 years 100% refund; 50% deposit locks in the original price, etc. Make your own variables.
2. must be small enough to insure confidence in the seller ("you're not paying your rent with this, are you?").
3. must be large enough to insure confidence that the buyer won't walk away, like $500. That's just my guess - I've had people surprise me by walking away from $100. deposits


Boffin Emeritus
Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: polyspheric] #2116211
07/23/16 05:03 PM
07/23/16 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By polyspheric
Let me be clear (who said that!).
I don't mean NO deposit - that's the only practical way to estimate production volume. The "I think I'd definitely maybe take one, if my Mom lets me" (responses to aluminum head for the slant 6) are completely worthless both as to intent and as a binder.

1. must have a non-refundable deposit, but with an escape clause like if no block in 1 year or price jump above $200 = 75% refund; after 2 years 100% refund; 50% deposit locks in the original price, etc. Make your own variables.
2. must be small enough to insure confidence in the seller ("you're not paying your rent with this, are you?").
3. must be large enough to insure confidence that the buyer won't walk away, like $500.

4. If just a reg block, no special work, deposit could be $500 ( number one above) but if extra special changes then a much larger deposit, if not total amount since it might be hard to sell to anouther buyer if original buyer backs out.
For me, I'll just wait till they're in stock or after feedbacks been out awhile.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: moparroad] #2116212
07/23/16 05:07 PM
07/23/16 05:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
X2, good point


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Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: polyspheric] #2116392
07/23/16 11:34 PM
07/23/16 11:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,431
USA
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SSAAHemiFan Offline
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USA
I SINCERELY hope Muscle Motors can get this done successfully.

I have been needing a good block since 1993 and have followed all the players, all the delays, and all the problems with castings, machining, plant closings, new patterns etc.

I simply refuse to hand over good money to "take a chance" that I would receive a good block that is machined and cast correctly, and not be soaked into spending more money to make it usable.

I have been burned enough over the years with used junk that was sold as good, poorly made new parts, and machine shops that are clueless or simply go out of business.

I have family members that have worked in foundry's so I know it is a much more involved process than most understand, but there is no excuse for some of the problems people have reported over the years with there blocks.

I have saved for over 20 years to have a Hemi in my car and have every nut and bolt needed to do so (minus a good block).

Hopefully they can be the guys who get it done.





Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: moparroad] #2116641
07/24/16 02:19 PM
07/24/16 02:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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camastomcat Offline
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Salt Lake City
I'm just going to make a few of points here:
1. Fiat doesn't care that we have few options for a block
2. As mentioned, professional companies don't ask the public to pay before actually supplying the part
3. I can build a GM style race engine for 20% less than a Mopar style race engine, and it will make 150 more HP, and I can have a fresh new block in a few days
4. I don't have to carry a trailer full of parts and can order headers from Summit or Jegs
5. If you are just convinced you need a high HP Mopar engine for whatever reason, I have 2 good ones for sale, as others do.
I'm done waiting for Mopar to get their act together. If I could sell my 30 years of acquired Mopar race stuff for a reasonable price, I would never look back.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: moparroad] #2116662
07/24/16 03:05 PM
07/24/16 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
If I can't race a Mopar, then I'll quit racing and watching. It's called brand affiliation, reason I come to this site. After 50 years I ain't changing and I'll walk by a $500,000 Chevy to look at a $100 Valiant.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: moparroad] #2116663
07/24/16 03:07 PM
07/24/16 03:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,254
Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
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Canada
To bad someone wouldn't buy all the Koleno stuff and start casting them again, those looked pretty promising.
The Ritter blocks problems seemed to be from poor machining by a 3rd party

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: cudaman1969] #2116677
07/24/16 03:26 PM
07/24/16 03:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 407
NE Indiana
momopar Offline
mopar
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NE Indiana
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
If I can't race a Mopar, then I'll quit racing and watching. It's called brand affiliation, reason I come to this site. After 50 years I ain't changing and I'll walk by a $500,000 Chevy to look at a $100 Valiant.


I bleed for Mother too.

That said, things do evolve over time and we have ALWAYS had to pay more than the other guy.

I'm thinkin' 3rd gen Hemi and turbo,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,sometimes?

Hate to say it but them 'other' guys got it made.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: momopar] #2116697
07/24/16 04:04 PM
07/24/16 04:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
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North Central, Indiana
Originally Posted By momopar


Hate to say it but them 'other' guys got it made.



Yep, market share is in their favor


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: cudaman1969] #2116708
07/24/16 04:21 PM
07/24/16 04:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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North Alabama
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
If I can't race a Mopar, then I'll quit racing and watching. It's called brand affiliation, reason I come to this site. After 50 years I ain't changing and I'll walk by a $500,000 Chevy to look at a $100 Valiant.
Well, that makes you a Mopar guy at heart, not a racer at heart and there is not a thing wrong with that. But racers RACE and do whatever needs to be done to make that happen.

As far as the comments about NOT putting up money before you get your "custom ordered" block........well, if you don't, you won't be getting a block from ANYBODY. I have ordered blocks from INDY, Brodix, Donovan and others. Just ONE slight variation from anything considered "standard" and you pay for the block up front. It's just how it is.

Just like the custom Donovan I have here. Oddball deck height, Wayne County bolt pattern, raised 60mm cam tunnel and custom lifter locations. What block company in their right mind would build an oddball monstrosity like that, without payment upfront. Any and I mean ANY variation from stock production is considered custom and you will be required to pay up front

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: Monte_Smith] #2116779
07/24/16 07:41 PM
07/24/16 07:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
If I can't race a Mopar, then I'll quit racing and watching. It's called brand affiliation, reason I come to this site. After 50 years I ain't changing and I'll walk by a $500,000 Chevy to look at a $100 Valiant.
Well, that makes you a Mopar guy at heart, not a racer at heart and there is not a thing wrong with that. But racers RACE and do whatever needs to be done to make that happen.

As far as the comments about NOT putting up money before you get your "custom ordered" block........well, if you don't, you won't be getting a block from ANYBODY. I have ordered blocks from INDY, Brodix, Donovan and others. Just ONE slight variation from anything considered "standard" and you pay for the block up front. It's just how it is.

Just like the custom Donovan I have here. Oddball deck height, Wayne County bolt pattern, raised 60mm cam tunnel and custom lifter locations. What block company in their right mind would build an oddball monstrosity like that, without payment upfront. Any and I mean ANY variation from stock production is considered custom and you will be required to pay up front

Agree totally.

Re: New Wedge and Hemi blocks [Re: cudaman1969] #2116830
07/24/16 08:50 PM
07/24/16 08:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
If I can't race a Mopar, then I'll quit racing and watching. It's called brand affiliation, reason I come to this site. After 50 years I ain't changing and I'll walk by a $500,000 Chevy to look at a $100 Valiant.
Well, that makes you a Mopar guy at heart, not a racer at heart and there is not a thing wrong with that. But racers RACE and do whatever needs to be done to make that happen.

As far as the comments about NOT putting up money before you get your "custom ordered" block........well, if you don't, you won't be getting a block from ANYBODY. I have ordered blocks from INDY, Brodix, Donovan and others. Just ONE slight variation from anything considered "standard" and you pay for the block up front. It's just how it is.

Just like the custom Donovan I have here. Oddball deck height, Wayne County bolt pattern, raised 60mm cam tunnel and custom lifter locations. What block company in their right mind would build an oddball monstrosity like that, without payment upfront. Any and I mean ANY variation from stock production is considered custom and you will be required to pay up front

Agree totally.


What will you do when all is left is old rusted blocks..
just like me... I'm running out of 340 blocks... my next
step is gen 3... unless you want to pay big money for a
aftermarket block at $5000
wave

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