Re: electric fan recommendations
[Re: dodgepaul]
#2105535
07/07/16 11:01 AM
07/07/16 11:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,496 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,496
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I use the electric fan/shroud setup from a '03 Viper on my cuda. Pretty cheap if you have a friend at a dealership get it for you w/ their discount. It has 2 speeds...I just use the lower speed setting. Cools my hemi good. I do have a big Griffin radiator that does a real good job too.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: electric fan recommendations
[Re: TJP]
#2105722
07/07/16 04:06 PM
07/07/16 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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As far as the Amperage vs CFM comment, There is some validity to the comment, However, a high amp fan motor with a poorly designed blade will draw the amperage but not move the air. An efficiently designed fan and motor will move the air while drawing minimal amperage. The trick is to find a supplier that does not "FLUFF" their numbers. Again, I like Spal and Flexalite.
True about a poorly designed fan drawing excessive amperage. The OEM fans all draw fairly high current because of their capacity. There's no free lunch. Hard work requires hard effort. The Mercedes fan shown above is by far the most powerful I've dealt with and is a really nice fit on our factory radiators. It spikes over 60 amps on soft startup and pulls more than 50 amps at full speed. Lower speeds obviously pull less amperage. Spal makes good stuff. I've used their fans. Flexalite is hit and miss. Their low priced fans are too weak for primary cooling.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: electric fan recommendations
[Re: moparx]
#2105793
07/07/16 06:08 PM
07/07/16 06:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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yes, i think i didn't explain correctly. both fans [if identical] will move the same amount of air. however, most cooling systems, if in good working condition, do not need a fan at "x" speed because the airflow through the core is enough to cool the radiator. this applies to mechanical and electric fans both. where the pusher fan creates a problem, is the fan and brackets block this air flow through the core by the amount of area the fan system takes up. a puller, by contrast does not because the full square inch area occupied by the fan system is behind the core, and the airflow through the grille opening to the core is as much as it can be [or is designed for]. where the majority of turbulence comes into play is when a pusher fan is used with a puller [of either type]. i "think" each type kind of work against each other even though the fan blades are designed to make the air flow toward the engine. not saying a pusher system won't work, but i really haven't seen an aftermarket setup that impresses me. and if using a mechanical fan and a pusher "just in case", i would rethink the whole system, including fan, water pump, radiator, and definitely use a shroud. without seeing the OP,s setup in person, i really can't offer a solution, but i think a pusher fan setup is not going to be it. remember, just my opinion. The radiator is a significant obstruction to air flow. A properly set up car will control the air well enough to shove it through the radiator at speed. It will reach a limit and begin to spill out around the front of the car. The reason you see chin spoilers under and behind front bumpers is to create a low pressure area in the engine compartment. That helps draw the air through the radiator. A pusher fan has to be crazy strong. It is hanging out in front of the radiator where air flow is highest. If the fan isn't capable of moving air as fast as the natural flow it will become an obstruction. I have tested this myself. A pair of typical parts house fans, when installed in a pusher location, caused higher engine temperatures when powered up. The engine cooled back down when the fans were turned off. Various speeds were tried. At 45 mph and above the engine heat increased. Putting the fan behind the radiator gives it a lower velocity and lower volume air flow to deal with. Powerful fans perform well in this position. Shrouds are just as critical with electrics as they are with mechanical fans. In one pair of tightly shrouded puller electrics I experienced heating problems at speed. I cut openings in the shroud and made flaps that were slightly larger than the openings. The fans would draw them closed at low speeds and the natural air flow would blow them open at speed.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: electric fan recommendations
[Re: topside]
#2105806
07/07/16 06:30 PM
07/07/16 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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What's the part #, application & pricing on that Mercedes fan? Mercedes C230 through C320 from 2001 to 2006. Aftermarket fans will require Hooziewhatsits controller (in the Moparts Products section). A direct 12 V line will burn them out quickly. Some factory fans can take a direct power input without a controller but that makes them run at insane speeds full time. Factory fans are quite expensive. We went through great lengths to test factory Mercedes vehicles and find out what kind of signal they used to power the fans.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: electric fan recommendations
[Re: feets]
#2105994
07/08/16 12:15 AM
07/08/16 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,842 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,842
Omaha Ne
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As far as the Amperage vs CFM comment, There is some validity to the comment, However, a high amp fan motor with a poorly designed blade will draw the amperage but not move the air. An efficiently designed fan and motor will move the air while drawing minimal amperage. The trick is to find a supplier that does not "FLUFF" their numbers. Again, I like Spal and Flexalite.
True about a poorly designed fan drawing excessive amperage. The OEM fans all draw fairly high current because of their capacity. There's no free lunch. Hard work requires hard effort. The Mercedes fan shown above is by far the most powerful I've dealt with and is a really nice fit on our factory radiators. It spikes over 60 amps on soft startup and pulls more than 50 amps at full speed. Lower speeds obviously pull less amperage. Spal makes good stuff. I've used their fans. Flexalite is hit and miss. Their low priced fans are too weak for primary cooling. 100% The OP's comment about I need a shallow depth of less than 3 inches Led me to post what I did. I am Ass-uming the Mercedes fan, nor any of the other OEM suggestions will meet his space requirements. Maybe I am wrong and mis-informed but to my knowledge, Efficient OEM fans require both amperage and space. The space is usually the issue in my experience. When Space is lacking creativity, IE: custom build is required. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: electric fan recommendations
[Re: topside]
#2106104
07/08/16 06:51 AM
07/08/16 06:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805 ky hills
thehemikid
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
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Expensive,... IF, looking for new & OEM. Had a friend in the local Dodge dealership try'n get me one for cost from the closest Mercedes dealer & the Mercedes parts guy wouldn't cut any slack on it. Don't remember for sure but think it was in the $550-650 range,...been a bit to long ago! Had to dig back 3 yrs for the receipt on the new one I found on the net at Autotech in Nashville, Tn. $489.97 ymmv. Think I paid high 300's for the twin 12" spal's 15 yrs ago. P/N A203 500 16 93 was the type shroud i liked. PS: My fan motor ended up being 3&5/16" from the core.
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Re: electric fan recommendations
[Re: dodgepaul]
#2106593
07/09/16 12:18 AM
07/09/16 12:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,933 Oregon
hooziewhatsit
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,933
Oregon
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I went out and measured one of the mercedes fans I have in the garage. It was 3.25-3.5". It also wasn't mounted to a radiator, so there may have been some tricks to shave off some height.
I've also tested the controller with a couple aftermarket fans, and it works just fine.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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