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Super sprag failure #2092250
06/15/16 07:36 AM
06/15/16 07:36 AM
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Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Ck[FIN] Offline OP
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Finland, Europe
My friends 727 broke behind his 550+cid 900hp+ big block.
It started to lock the tires after launch and i found broken sprag. Never first gear burnouts. car broke rear end last summer, maybe broke the sprag too.
valve body does have band on first gear. Also got aluminum drum.

In my opinion, the super sprag worked like it should even if it broke, didnt roll over, just got stuck and stopped the car.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B33OAqkGbjVpcVE2YVQ0OWY4VjRZeVM1NXE1SXBFc1B2cHVR

Last edited by Ck[FIN]; 06/15/16 07:38 AM.

-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: Ck[FIN]] #2092283
06/15/16 09:50 AM
06/15/16 09:50 AM
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Southington Ct.
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turbobitt Offline
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Hard to see but it looks like it wasn't getting any lube oil. Is that bluing on the inner race ? Do the rollers look like they have wear prior to the damage ? If there is wear due to lack of lube oil I wonder if it would have been beneficial to drill a small lube oil hole from the lube feed passage.
AG.


1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: turbobitt] #2092417
06/15/16 01:34 PM
06/15/16 01:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 73,564
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted By turbobitt
Hard to see but it looks like it wasn't getting any lube oil. Is that bluing on the inner race ? Do the rollers look like they have wear prior to the damage ? If there is wear due to lack of lube oil I wonder if it would have been beneficial to drill a small lube oil hole from the lube feed passage.
AG.


I add that tiny hole on every 727 I build.


running up my post count some more .
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: JohnRR] #2092459
06/15/16 02:45 PM
06/15/16 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,584
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
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Me too.

Spraglube front.jpgSpraglube rear.jpg

I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: John_Kunkel] #2092564
06/15/16 05:19 PM
06/15/16 05:19 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Ck[FIN] Offline OP
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Yes there is an extra lube hole. This is 4k Coan transmission, about 100passes. Front drum return springs were all over the place. Clutches like brand new.

Last edited by Ck[FIN]; 06/15/16 05:28 PM.

-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: Ck[FIN]] #2092596
06/15/16 06:25 PM
06/15/16 06:25 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,228
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Not sure why it broke? Is that using a manual reverse valve body or forward pattern.

I have the A&A Ultimate Sprag, that bolts in with six bolts. I'm not sure if the super sprag is much different other than having four bolts?

Re: Super sprag failure [Re: Ck[FIN]] #2092606
06/15/16 06:40 PM
06/15/16 06:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
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Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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Just goes to show big power can break anything. Mine had rolled a stock spray with LBA a few years ago. Dame thing, never any 1st gear burnouts.

I think it's from hard launches and occasionally stick/spin launches that kill it.

Re: Super sprag failure [Re: Ck[FIN]] #2092615
06/15/16 06:57 PM
06/15/16 06:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,584
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Like turbobitt said, the burn marks are strange and extend pretty near all the way around the visible inside of the race. I'd want to mike the surviving rollers to check for flat spots.

What does the rear band look like?


I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: John_Kunkel] #2092618
06/15/16 07:12 PM
06/15/16 07:12 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Ck[FIN] Offline OP
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Its reverse vb.
I,ll take some more photos of the sprag for you to analyze.
Rear band is like new, still says hd kevlar in it.


-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: Ck[FIN]] #2092861
06/16/16 07:09 AM
06/16/16 07:09 AM
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Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Ck[FIN] Offline OP
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Here some more photos, looks like the color was there before accident. This car has too little tires so it spins often at launch and then gets traction. Maybe it(and the rear end failure) had something to do with this.

Sprag
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B33OAqkGbjVpdU9OZUhuOWxnb2c

Sprag 2
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B33OAqkGbjVpcEx1WjBrQlRCODQ

Sprag 3
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B33OAqkGbjVpQ1JNUHlDOGd0a1E

Band
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B33OAqkGbjVpSjlUOUZ1VDdfVmc

Case
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B33OAqkGbjVpNDg4NnV0cm9zV2M

"Roller"
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B33OAqkGbjVpUW9RRnZYMGhpZWs

Last edited by Ck[FIN]; 06/16/16 07:12 AM.

-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: Ck[FIN]] #2092863
06/16/16 07:46 AM
06/16/16 07:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,019
Finland
mafo Offline
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No need to mike those rollers... grin


-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: mafo] #2092870
06/16/16 09:03 AM
06/16/16 09:03 AM
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Posts: 588
Southington Ct.
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turbobitt Offline
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In my opinion this looks like a lube circuit failure. It appears to have a lot of wear and galling. I would start by looking at the rear roller support and make sure the seals are doing there job and contacting the appropriate surfaces. Put the tail shaft back in with the output shaft and see what is happening between the bearings, seals and relief cuts in the shaft. At this point it may be a good idea to send compressed air through the lube supply and see if there are any undesirable leaks. Then I would work my way through the system and make sure the cooler is not clogged and maybe inspect the valve body.
AG.

Last edited by turbobitt; 06/16/16 09:08 AM.

1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: turbobitt] #2092900
06/16/16 10:18 AM
06/16/16 10:18 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Ck[FIN] Offline OP
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Could be a lube problem, i'll check those oil passages and seals. Maybe a bigger lube hole also?


-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: Ck[FIN]] #2092905
06/16/16 10:37 AM
06/16/16 10:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 588
Southington Ct.
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turbobitt Offline
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I don't think the lube hole is the problem and the fact that it already has one is probably overkill in a perfect lube oil situation. It just looks to me as if its not getting any oil to that hole whatsoever. It appears as if the rollers wore so bad that they eventually rolled over, jammed or ejected with the springs because of the reduction in size.
Any time a roller rear support is used carefully attention to the lube circuit and alignment of the sealing areas on the output shaft must be taken.
As a precautionary measure, I would inspect the planets and make sure the gears have minimal radial play(as an indication of needle bearing and shaft wear). If it is a lube failure and has been running like this for a while the planetaries may be starting to take a beating.
AG.

Last edited by turbobitt; 06/16/16 10:43 AM.

1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: Super sprag failure [Re: Ck[FIN]] #2093110
06/16/16 06:28 PM
06/16/16 06:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
DARTH V8Я  Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
Originally Posted By Ck[FIN
]Could be a lube problem

Definitely a lube problem.. yikes.


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..

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