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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: dartman366] #2068532
05/06/16 10:33 PM
05/06/16 10:33 PM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline
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Andy I haven't seen the MW head, so I can't say what they're doing with it but I'm pretty sure they will be casting an intake to go with it....


Brian Hafliger
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Brian Hafliger] #2068552
05/06/16 10:53 PM
05/06/16 10:53 PM
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AndyF Offline
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I've sent a couple of emails to Trick Flow telling them they need to do a high port version of the head. There is a lot of material there so it should be fairly easy to do. Just move the ports up as they move them out. If they would extend the intake face by 1/2 inch and move the ports up 1/2 inch the head would flow better and they would get rid of the bathtub gasket and all of the associated issues.

They never responded to my emails so I doubt they'll take the advice but it would make the head an even bigger winner. Standard intakes would still bolt on, they would just be raised up a slight amount. The port would be the same size but it would be a straighter shot to the valve rather than an S shape like it is now.

But regardless of what they do, I have a solution for the valley tray issue. I have a design ready to get cut and should have parts on my engine to test before too long.

Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2070186
05/09/16 05:03 PM
05/09/16 05:03 PM
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I have the new parts designed and on order. Might be a week or so before I have them in my hand for test fitting. I'm pretty sure this new design will solve the problem.

Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2070202
05/09/16 05:30 PM
05/09/16 05:30 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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In the overall scheme of things, IMO the TF heads are closest in execution to the old Bulldog heads.
The first version of those also had std height ports, but after enough clamering from users they finally changed to a slightly raised/extended runner, eliminating the need for the OE valley pan gasket.
Hopefully, TF will follow suit and offer them like that as well.
It would just make it a better head.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Thumperdart] #2070559
05/10/16 02:42 AM
05/10/16 02:42 AM
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North Sweden
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RT540 Offline
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Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Originally Posted By RT540
My old B1BS heads had an alum. bar bolted under the edge of the intake port of the heads that was milled 45 degrees. The bara also had small threaded holes for allen screws.
I still have some pics, if anyone would like to see!


Sure.............


Here´s the pict.
Can´t take credit, as the heads came this way when I bought them.




Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: RT540] #2070744
05/10/16 12:56 PM
05/10/16 12:56 PM
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Very clever..............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Brian Hafliger] #2073406
05/14/16 06:48 PM
05/14/16 06:48 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted By ou812
Originally Posted By AndyF
The billet valley plates have a taper on the edges since they are designed to fit under an Indy head. When you use them with a standard head such as the Edelbrock or Trick Flow then you end up with a narrow gap between the knife edge and the head. You can fill in the gap with RTV but I think it will leak fairly quickly.

I can think of a couple of possible solutions but I'll have to make the parts myself to fix the issue since nobody else has solved the problem yet.


If you do I'd buy a few from you...maybe TF would carry them too! Might work well with their MW head when released!


Here is the solution I'm working on. I need to tweak this design a little more and then I think it is ready to try on the dyno. I just made some aluminum "bat wings" which I can then glue a pair of gaskets to. The bottom of the aluminum inner gasket is bent up so it can be sealed with RTV to the valley plate. Should be simple and bulletproof.

DSC_9646 (Large).JPGDSC_9645 (Large).JPG
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2073504
05/14/16 08:58 PM
05/14/16 08:58 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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How thick are the new plates?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2073519
05/14/16 09:34 PM
05/14/16 09:34 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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I really dig all the stuff you make. Really. But why would you not just make that a simple factory style tub? Seems overly complex for a simple problem, and much more expensive. Also more leak potential with no upside. Am I missing something?
All of this is brought up with the greatest respect... Really.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: fast68plymouth] #2073541
05/14/16 10:12 PM
05/14/16 10:12 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
How thick are the new plates?


I used 0.032 aluminum. So with a pair of the Superformance paper gaskets the stack up is 0.062 which is what I need for this combo. Actually a perfect stackup might be an 0.015 on the bottom and a 0.030 on the top side for a 0.075 total height. I'll have to play around with it a little bit to get a perfect port alignment.

Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: TRENDZ] #2073543
05/14/16 10:14 PM
05/14/16 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted By TRENDZ
I really dig all the stuff you make. Really. But why would you not just make that a simple factory style tub? Seems overly complex for a simple problem, and much more expensive. Also more leak potential with no upside. Am I missing something?
All of this is brought up with the greatest respect... Really.


Sorry, I don't understand your question. It isn't simple to tool up a factory style tub. I already had a valley plate sitting on the shelf so these little bat wings are easy to make.

It would be great if someone tooled up a factory style tub for fully ported heads but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2073549
05/14/16 10:29 PM
05/14/16 10:29 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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A single flat piece of aluminum with two bends and port holes. There is no need for the "tub" stamping.
The inspection style plates are only needed for heads that hang over the valley surface.
I understand that if you have one of these plates, that you may want to use it. I just see a heavier, more complex, more expensive part with more leak potential.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: fast68plymouth] #2077969
05/21/16 11:17 PM
05/21/16 11:17 PM
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I tweaked the design a little bit and got it really close. I think I can ahead and run these. Just a little RTV on the bottom side where it seals to the valley plate and then some grease on the gaskets and it should seal up nice. I was really struggling getting the ports in the bathtub gaskets to line up with the fully ported TF heads.

DSC_9705 (Large).JPGDSC_9706 (Large).JPG
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2078090
05/22/16 02:40 AM
05/22/16 02:40 AM
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That looks like it would work to seal factory iron heads to the valley plate as well. What do you think?

Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2078289
05/22/16 02:58 PM
05/22/16 02:58 PM
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Yes, the same trick should work or ported iron heads or Edelbrock/Stealth heads. I could also easily make the port size in the aluminum portion a custom size if I was doing something crazy like making a raised port Trick Flow head.

Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2078328
05/22/16 04:17 PM
05/22/16 04:17 PM
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Here is the other idea that I'm working on. You can overlap two of these. The overlap area is more than an inch so I'm thinking that a thin coat of RTV would make a pretty good seal. The aluminum is only 0.030 thick so it gets really flimsy in the center but it should work okay for a drag motor.

DSC_9710 (Large).JPGDSC_9711 (Large).JPG
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: AndyF] #2078333
05/22/16 04:42 PM
05/22/16 04:42 PM
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Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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on the second design, my only concern would be is if you were using a vac pump which I am planning on doing,maybe the rtv and 3 or 4 sheet metal screw's down the center would do the trick,, I like the first design for my application by using an Indy or Mancini center plate with inspection cover, that should seal better with the cast frame and the sheet stock having the break close to the sealing area for stiffness, both would work good if a vac pump were not used.


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: AndyF] #2078334
05/22/16 04:43 PM
05/22/16 04:43 PM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Here is the other idea that I'm working on. You can overlap two of these. The overlap area is more than an inch so I'm thinking that a thin coat of RTV would make a pretty good seal. The aluminum is only 0.030 thick so it gets really flimsy in the center but it should work okay for a drag motor.


I need this in Max wedge ports!!!!!


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: Jimbo] #2078397
05/22/16 07:05 PM
05/22/16 07:05 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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Why not one piece? make the ports standard size, and leave material around the ports for end user fitment.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows [Re: TRENDZ] #2078419
05/22/16 07:56 PM
05/22/16 07:56 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Originally Posted By TRENDZ
Why not one piece? make the ports standard size, and leave material around the ports for end user fitment.

Since you don't like his design, why not try building something yourself, instead of complaining about what Andy's coming up with on his own? You already described what you'd like to see made.

Last edited by BradH; 05/22/16 08:17 PM.
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