Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: roe]
#2045414
04/03/16 03:14 PM
04/03/16 03:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050 Texas
GoodysGotaCuda
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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5.7L Hemi, 6spd
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
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Don't buy a Harbor Freight!!
Well I'll represent the cheap welders. They are NOT equivalent to a Lincoln, Miller, etc...but I can't kill mine either. I have had a 170a Harbor Freight 220v mig for 3 years and have a couple hundred hours on it by now. I've welded significant items with it, primarily for heavily modified Jeep wranglers. Control arms, track bar mounts, hydro-assist steering bracketry, control arm mounts, roll cages, axle trusses even welded the Knuckle C's to the axle housing (and it hasn't come apart yet). That welder was $180 or so. The lead is short, the ground wire needed upgraded, and the rollers are not all that good any more. But holy moly, did I get my monies worth out of it. At the time, it's exactly what I needed. I put another hundred or so hours on the machine for sheet metal and rust repair work on my Barracuda. Worked out just fine. I will replace it with a higher quality machine, when it dies. For what it's worth, I taught myself how to weld on...you guessed it..a 90a Harbor Freight MIG (flux). While that wasn't a "good" machine either, it served it's purpose. I still have it as a 110v option if ever had to take it somewhere that didn't have 220v available. The barriers to entry for welding is steep enough as it is. Had I purely listened to the "buy one for the rest of your life crowd", I'm not sure I would have ever gotten there. I have around $400 in my 220v machine with a decent hood and a shielding gas tank. ..That's my 2cents.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: Stanton]
#2045419
04/03/16 03:19 PM
04/03/16 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344 Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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OK, thanks. I'll stay away from the Lincoln
1971 Plymouth Satellite 408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: roe]
#2045422
04/03/16 03:22 PM
04/03/16 03:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,033 Salem
Grizzly
Moparts Proctologist
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Moparts Proctologist
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,033
Salem
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Saying this the nicest way possible: take a welding course. There is too much to learn and it can't be self-taught. Then go welder shopping.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#2045426
04/03/16 03:23 PM
04/03/16 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344 Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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Don't buy a Harbor Freight!!
Well I'll represent the cheap welders. They are NOT equivalent to a Lincoln, Miller, etc...but I can't kill mine either. I have had a 170a Harbor Freight 220v mig for 3 years and have a couple hundred hours on it by now. I've welded significant items with it, primarily for heavily modified Jeep wranglers. Control arms, track bar mounts, hydro-assist steering bracketry, control arm mounts, roll cages, axle trusses even welded the Knuckle C's to the axle housing (and it hasn't come apart yet). That welder was $180 or so. The lead is short, the ground wire needed upgraded, and the rollers are not all that good any more. But holy moly, did I get my monies worth out of it. At the time, it's exactly what I needed. I put another hundred or so hours on the machine for sheet metal and rust repair work on my Barracuda. Worked out just fine. I will replace it with a higher quality machine, when it dies. For what it's worth, I taught myself how to weld on...you guessed it..a 90a Harbor Freight MIG (flux). While that wasn't a "good" machine either, it served it's purpose. I still have it as a 110v option if ever had to take it somewhere that didn't have 220v available. The barriers to entry for welding is steep enough as it is. Had I purely listened to the "buy one for the rest of your life crowd", I'm not sure I would have ever gotten there. I have around $400 in my 220v machine with a decent hood and a shielding gas tank. ..That's my 2cents. Thanks for the input. Gives me some more to think about as its more in line with my original thoughts which were small and inexpensive to learn with, then upgrade later.
1971 Plymouth Satellite 408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: Stanton]
#2045437
04/03/16 03:33 PM
04/03/16 03:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050 Texas
GoodysGotaCuda
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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5.7L Hemi, 6spd
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
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I think the Lincoln is really "entry level" - a toy almost! If you plan to do much in the future you'd quickly want an upgrade. The Miller is a nice little welder for a 110v unit.
The thing about name brands is the availability of parts. If you change wire sizes you ideally need to change the feed rollers, liner and contact tip. For name brands, these are "off the shelf" items at welding supply shops or on line. Just try to find a feed roller for a no-name welder or a liner !!!
I've used 0.025", 0.030" and 0.035" wire in my cheapie machine just fine....With the rollers it came with. I'm not following the need for changing the liner out for different size wire, but that hasn't slowed me down either. The tips? Yep, those are off the shelf too. Home Depot, Lowes, Tractor Supply, welding store, you name it, nothing exotic or hard to find. They work perfectly on my cheap China machine. You can even see some packs straight from Lowe's sitting in the cart.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: jcc]
#2045442
04/03/16 03:41 PM
04/03/16 03:41 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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"A 110-Volt, single phase machine (140+ Amp) with 75/25 mix of Argon/CO2 gas and 0.023" to 0.030" wire should do most of what you mentioned, welding 3/8" and thinner carbon steel." Sorry, but you are not welding 3/8" with a 140 amp machine with any confidence, most everything else on this thread is pretty standard info. my bad, should have been 3/16". Any thoughts on the multi-process machines? I have not used one, I just thought $599 for that tewco was a good price? I don't see the TIG function on these as being very useful? Dual-shield or inner-shield is a legit welding process. I think the wire is different than that used for flux core welding. It welds really hot and you can put down alot of wire pretty fast.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: Stanton]
#2045446
04/03/16 03:44 PM
04/03/16 03:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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I'm sure most would say no to this, but I don't usually follow the pack any way. I got myself an oxy-acetylene out fit. The big guy on a cart, not the little hobby kit unit. I seem to recall getting in it for about $400.00. Several years ago now. Consumables are always a cost but I don't think this is any worse or better than anything else. I can do much more than weld with it. Don't need electricity to use it. That makes it very versatile for me. For the cost I figured I'd go old school. Used to be the standard a hundred years ago. Cutting has come in very handy as I strip cars and sell off parts. Metal is very easy to form to odd shapes when it is red hot and pliable. As for welding. I have read a bit and it seems I can weld some pretty hefty stuff once I get better at technique and metallurgy. I just need the proper size tips and sticks. Practice practice practice. So far I do fairly well with sheet metal and mild steel like muffler pipe. I have done some practice on heavier stuff like brackets on frames. It works, I just need more practice. The fact I scrap cars gives me plenty to practice on. Unit body frames are rather mild compared to body on frame but the fire knife will get it done on either. Practice practice practice. I hear it's even good practice for tig.
I have mechanical Aptitude. I can screw up anything.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2045535
04/03/16 04:55 PM
04/03/16 04:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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Oxy-acetylene is versatile, but causes too much warpage for sheet metal work. Would be useful for leading body seams. I have a lot more time than money. I did warp a lot when I first started, but now I do pretty good. Just have to walk away a lot and let it cool. A wet rag helps some too. It does work for me. Of course I'm not hanging panels.
I have mechanical Aptitude. I can screw up anything.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: Stanton]
#2045645
04/03/16 08:16 PM
04/03/16 08:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,702 W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,702
W. Kentucky
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I just got another small roll of flux core wire and will use it with the c25 gas. This process is called dual shield welding and produces near perfect welds for newbies. This is hilarious but April Fools was Friday! This is like wearing suspenders AND a belt - totally unnecessary. Learn to weld with either/or but both is a crutch you'll never get rid of. And to the point of producing "near perfect" welds, lets focus on that. First the word "near" - so they're still not "perfect" so why bother! Second, the shielding plays such a small role in the whole scheme of things that using two shielding methods is ridiculous. Torch angle, stickout, voltage/amperage settings and speed of travel play a much larger role in the quality of the weld. Shielding ... you set the gas flow and forget it! Seriously, you don't take advice from a "beginner" on how to weld !! Actually shielded gas flux core mig is a very good process in applications that require a lot of penetration. It's also very good for vertical up. It's not needed for sheet metal or light fab work.
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2045687
04/03/16 09:20 PM
04/03/16 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494 IL
EchoSixMike
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494
IL
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Sounds like you are looking at Gas Metal Arc Welding process - GMAW, also commonly known a MIG (Metal Inert Gas) welding. A 110-Volt, single phase machine (140+ Amp) with 75/25 mix of Argon/CO2 gas and 0.023" to 0.030" wire should do most of what you mentioned, welding 3/8" and thinner carbon steel. I recommend staying with well known brands like Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, ESAB/Tweco because replacement parts and service are easier to get for them lesser known import brands. Downside is the brand name MIG machines prices start near $600 (with reguator.) Also need to add around $200+ for the gas bottle. Prices vary depending on bottle size and discounts. It is best to call around locally to compare prices. Do not buy a cheap flux core only machine. Any MIG machine can do flux core wire, but it is messy and will wish you had the solid wire with gas. There are also multi-process machines that will do MIG, stick, and TIG. These machines are more expensive, mainly because they require addition cables and electrode holders. The stick welding function (Shielded metal arc welding - SMAW) could be useful on thicker steel or welding outdoor where the MIGs shield gas may be blown away by wind. On these lower cost machines, the TIG (Gas tungsten arc welding - GTAW) function is pretty limited to fixed current DC lift-tig. This might be useful on thinner sheet metal or tight places where the MIG gun won't fit, but the TIG torch will, and maybe to learn basic TIG. As you go up in price you get more output power, functions, and higher duty cycle. The ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic Multi-Process machine they have been prompting on Power blocks Extreme Offroad looks nice if you want to learn to weld the different process. This is a dual-input machine so you can plug it in a 110-volt outlet and MIG weld up to 130 Amps @ 20% duty cycle or plug into 230-volt outlet and weld up to 205 Amps @ 25% duty cycle. http://www.esabna.com/us/en/products/ind...=9504&tab=1These seem to be selling for $1437 on cyberweld.com or $1435 on weldingsuppliesfromioc.com Both web stores have good prices on welders. Duty cycle is the amount of time you can weld in a 10-minute period, so 20% is 2-minutes welding, 8-minutes cool-off time. These ratings are at max power output, so normally you will be welding at a fraction of the max output and duty cycle will be higher. The welder instructions should have a chart of the duty cycle at different outputs based on the input power used. When I was looking up the machine prices, I noticed Cyberweld has a Tweco Fabricator 181i Multi-process machine that is only $599 http://store.cyberweld.com/tharcfa18miw.htmlMachine looks nice, but I think it is 230-Volt input power only? I have never used one of these, but it has good reviews on the web site? Tweco used to be Thermal Dynamics, they're nice welders. I had a 181i which I sold to our shop when we opened another terminal and bought a dual voltage 211 to replace it at my house and for field use. I keep a big Lincoln Power MIG 300 at work for my own use with .035 wire. It pains me to say, but being honest the 141i 115v unit is probably more than adequate for automotive purposes. Do not buy box store welders, they're crippled compared to proper tools. At present the invertors are the way to go. Lincoln has a 200amp unit on sale for $1000, but that's probably more than you want to spend. Buying used welders off CL is asking for pain unless they're really cheap. You get a 3yr warrenty with new, and a modern invertors really are much better for getting welding power from marginal house current. S/F....Ken M
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Re: Welding for a novice/newbie
[Re: roe]
#2046030
04/04/16 04:47 AM
04/04/16 04:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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I bought my Lincoln SP250 mig from a friend that passed for 800 including the bottle and regulator. I traded some labor and a very expensive air tool for my Lincoln Precision tig 225 that had 5 hours of run time on it. I have been acquiring torch items for years, I am partial to the Oxy welding J28 and J40 aircraft series victor setup, but most would probably be better off with a 100 series. I have a nice 550 series Esab plasma, I got it on a local advertisement used, its a nice machine but the consumables are ridiculously expensive. I also have a Hobart TR250 stick machine with a Tig attachment, this is old school scratch start tig without a hand or thumb control. I used it like a torch to weld, start, weld, when it gets too hot, pull the handle away, start over when it gets cool enough.
Take the class and then start looking for a name brand machine. Transformer machines are robust but larger compared to the newer electronic machines. I
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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