Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2042884
03/31/16 06:48 PM
03/31/16 06:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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Screw it together and go have FUN as it will run great. Without knowing exactly how fast you want to go I did about the same thing. When I built my Keith Black 572 the cam was spected for my B1 heads but My Indy 440-1 heads were ready sitting on the shelf so I threw them on. At that time they were flowing under 350cfm and although my Daytona was light (2300 pounds) it still went 8.40@160mph with a bad brand new BG400 fuel pump on it. Cam was in the 800 plus lift area, Indy intake, 1050 carb.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2043335
04/01/16 08:42 AM
04/01/16 08:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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I went with 1.7 rockers on the B1's and I think 1.65's on the 440-1 heads. The only other thing you may want to consider is if and when you want to step up to a different head are the pistons valve reliefs going to be OK. My pistons were Wiseco Pistons made for 440-1 heads so I had Tom Hemphill go ahead and cut them for my B1 heads so the engine was balanced and ready for the switch-over.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2043474
04/01/16 01:24 PM
04/01/16 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
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Thanks guys, I'm starting to feel better about this. My current springs bind at .75. Sounds like I may need to go to a spring that allows more lift. I also run 1.5 rockers might need 1.6. Well you aren't going to make a ton of power with 1.50 rocker arms. You have to run a 0.500 lobe lift cam to get .750 valve lift and that is just about the end of the line for a stock Mopar setup. At 0.500 lobe lift you start to run into problems with the oil gallery unless you have bushed lifter bores. On my EZ heads I run 1.85 Jesel rocker arms and .890 lift. But it takes a serious investment in time and money to make that happen. It is easier to switch heads than to put that much work into a set of EZ heads.
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2043516
04/01/16 02:09 PM
04/01/16 02:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Thanks Andy. I'm seriously thinking going to a 1.6 - 1.7 rocker to get in the .800 lift range and live with the heads for a while. I do have bushed lifter bores. My engine builder prefers the higher ratio rockers. You buying rockers anyway......put some ratio on it. Go 1.8s
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2044082
04/02/16 12:47 AM
04/02/16 12:47 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154 Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
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You're gonna need around 800hp for those 9.30's. 345cfm cam in the .770ish range should get you there. Your well on your way buddy.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2044448
04/02/16 02:22 PM
04/02/16 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
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Nick did set the heads up completely from machine work to springs and retainers. He set everything up for the .750 lift comp roller he had ground for the last motor. Not sure if the retainers are correct for the higher lift. I do know I would have to go to the next comp spring to get past the coil bind. Maybe it's best like you said to have them looked at by a pro. Okay, if you already have a complete combo designed to work at .750 then I'd bolt it together and run it. It might make the power that you need and it might not but you might as well try it. Run it a season and then you'll know.
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2044531
04/02/16 04:41 PM
04/02/16 04:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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I finished dyno testing a 511 C.I. 400 iron block stroker motor for a local customer yesterday with a set of Indy 440 EZ M.W. intake port size heads, I don't know how to tell if thier the 295 or 345 versions , with a old Comp Cams solid lifter cam, 275@.050 with .635 net lift with checking springs, 12.0 to 1 compression on 108 octane race gas. I was disappointed with the 655 HP it made with a Indy 400-2 intake and the Proform 950 CFM carb. I tried a Holley 1050 CFM Dominator with the tapered adapter and it didn't pick up 2 hp with simialr AFR I should have used a set of 440-1 CNC ported heads I have on that short block instead of those EZ Hindsight is always 20/20
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/02/16 04:42 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2044548
04/02/16 04:59 PM
04/02/16 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Cab, EZ heads can make good power, but if you're running basically ootb EZ-1's, you're definitely leaving power on the table. If that motor had CNC 295's or 325's on it, it should have made quite a bit more power than that.
My feeling for the OP's build...... 345cfm EZ's (from my bench) would represent mildly cleaned up heads. Not what I would use if I were anticipating making 800hp. That being said, I'd still use them as is, with a suitable cam that will work with the hardware that's already on the heads. Save your money and use it towards bigger heads that are more in line with those power levels(800hp+).
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2044669
04/02/16 08:07 PM
04/02/16 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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What rockers were you running before? Do you know what part number springs are on the heads, and the installed height?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2044892
04/02/16 11:51 PM
04/02/16 11:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Installed at 1.900-1.920 that's a decent spring for a moderate rate roller cam up to about .660-.670 net lift. And, at roughly 600lbs open pressure, that's all the spring you want to use with those rockers.
IMO, you don't have the valvetrain components necessary to run any of those big cams you have.
The exhaust ports on those heads are rather small for that sized motor, along with the in/ex ratio not being ideal, so I would lean towards a cam with 10-12 deg split to try and help extend the upper end of the power band.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2044941
04/03/16 12:36 AM
04/03/16 12:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I don't know where you have those springs installed, but if you were running over .700 lift with them, you may want to have them tested before reusing them. The .690 cam would be okay with them...... After lash and deflection it would be .660ish lift at the valve with those crane gold 1.5's.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2045290
04/03/16 01:52 PM
04/03/16 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Comp shows a coil bind height of 1.160 for the 943 spring. Installed at 1.900(the "recommended" installed height), that puts the spring into coil bind at .740 net valve lift.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2045360
04/03/16 02:40 PM
04/03/16 02:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77 British Columbia Canada
Challenger340
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
British Columbia Canada
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The old 289/.690" Comp is no slouch, easy on parts, and can make very good power. We've seen 849hp 753 Trq using it on a 540 with ported INDY "SR" heads, which granted have a better Exh than the EZ Head, nonetheless, pretty forgiving old grind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzWhkC4dAI0We've moved on to a newer SF750 Bench nowadays, so no point going over "where" we had the SR's on the old Bench(they took us some time), but I suspect not that much better than your EZ's.
Better to be a "has been" than a "never was".
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: Challenger340]
#2045672
04/03/16 08:59 PM
04/03/16 08:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,449 nc
earthmover
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,449
nc
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The old 289/.690" Comp is no slouch, easy on parts, and can make very good power. We've seen 849hp 753 Trq using it on a 540 with ported INDY "SR" heads, which granted have a better Exh than the EZ Head, nonetheless, pretty forgiving old grind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzWhkC4dAI0We've moved on to a newer SF750 Bench nowadays, so no point going over "where" we had the SR's on the old Bench(they took us some time), but I suspect not that much better than your EZ's. Nice care to share that build..
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: earthmover]
#2045733
04/03/16 10:21 PM
04/03/16 10:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77 British Columbia Canada
Challenger340
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
British Columbia Canada
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The old 289/.690" Comp is no slouch, easy on parts, and can make very good power. We've seen 849hp 753 Trq using it on a 540 with ported INDY "SR" heads, which granted have a better Exh than the EZ Head, nonetheless, pretty forgiving old grind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzWhkC4dAI0We've moved on to a newer SF750 Bench nowadays, so no point going over "where" we had the SR's on the old Bench(they took us some time), but I suspect not that much better than your EZ's. Nice care to share that build.. Sure, whadda ya wanna know ? Built/Machined/Porting etc., originally way back in the late 90's early 2000, the video was after refreshening again back in 2010, cliff runnered up with it again that year at the MATS show. We call it "Ol faithful" because the Engine must have 3000 hits on it over the 15-16 years, with freshenings about every 4-500. Doing VERY WELL for what it is, but Cliff does equally good with thermally stabilizing and taking care of the maintenance. He knows how to run and maintain it.... so no "problems" whatsoever. Pretty K.I.S.S. build. Mega Block, now @ 4.530" Eagle 4.250 Crank W/2.200" 7.100 Eagles W/2000 upgrade JE 2618 Dome Piston, "off the shelf" Std Speed Pro 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 Ringpack, Plasma Moly/Ductile/ SSOU 50 (std tension) INDY SR's, heavily worked(but no holes or epoxy) INDY & #8896 Holley progressive 4500 Comp 287"? or 289?(I forget)/.690"... the first grind. Comp std Roller Lifters(back for rebuild each freshening. Used to run Crane Golds, which we would just cycle out about ever 3 seasons just for good measure, never a problem, but moved to Harlands a few years back when Gold's went nla with Crane down. This particular Engine could ignite a very interesting discussion regarding what is "optimum" quench distance on a 4.500" Bore Engines. Suffice to say, our testing does NOT support sub .050", which we consider a 4.00" Bore Engine number ? Just my thoughts, no wars wanted.
Better to be a "has been" than a "never was".
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Re: New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2263181
03/04/17 12:35 PM
03/04/17 12:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Have you considered going right to a better head now? I didn't when i had the chance years ago and painted myself into a financial corner, and am now limited to 440-1 heads. You might want to sharpen your pencil and see what it would take to build what you want now, rather than after you put $$$$$$ in good rockers, the right cam, converter, gears, etc. In my case i would have gone with B1Mc heads if i had thought enough about my future goals. Instead I started with pocket ported heads, then had bigger valves and a full port done, and finally tried an even bigger intake valve combo. I would have some $$ left over had i done it right the first time.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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