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Strange starter problem #2040620 03/28/16 07:54 PM 03/28/16 07:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	I am having an issue with my starter that I haven't come across before. It's a small block with a small Dakota starter that I put in last year because the previous one stopped working. Yesterday when I went out to start it for the first time this year it would only click. The solenoid made the typical clacking sounds but would not turn over. Checked the battery and was at 12 v. I made sure all the connections were good and tight. So I tried holding the ignition key in the start position for a few seconds and finally it spun over and started right up. It took about 10 seconds for the starter to spin. It seemed to start fine after that but any time I let it sit for more than a few minutes the starter would do the same thing and it takes about 10 seconds to spin over. I noticed this a bit last year where it would take a couple seconds to spin but this is much worse. What's the consensus? New starter needed? Wiring issue?

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2040628 03/28/16 08:07 PM 03/28/16 08:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	When it did this was it just one click when you tried to start it or did it keep clicking like a machine gun sound ? Ron

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: 383man] #2040630 03/28/16 08:10 PM 03/28/16 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Originally Posted By 383man When it did this was it just one click when you tried to start it or did it keep clicking like a machine gun sound ? Ron Just one click which I assume rules out the battery?

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2040771 03/28/16 10:46 PM 03/28/16 10:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	My very first thought was the starter but 10 seconds later I was thinking that ain't 12V at the batt kind of low for a fully charged one?? What I WOULD do is sub in a known good fully charged batt & that will quickly elim or confirm that it it the batt, then if not you can go thru the harder job of pulling the starter (harder than dropping in a batt). Holler how it turns out. PS Yes that is a STRANGE symptom! live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: RapidRobert] #2040789 03/28/16 10:57 PM 03/28/16 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Originally Posted By RapidRobert My very first thought was the starter but 10 seconds later I was thinking that ain't 12V at the batt kind of low for a fully charged one?? What I WOULD do is sub in a known good fully charged batt & that will quickly elim or confirm that it it the batt, then if not you can go thru the harder job of pulling the starter (harder than dropping in a batt). Holler how it turns out. PS Yes that is a STRANGE symptom! I put a battery charger on it and the voltage on the battery was around 14v and I had the same issue. I would be surprised if it was the battery.

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2040798 03/28/16 11:06 PM 03/28/16 11:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	My thought was to switch out the cable that runs from the battery to the starter. Maybe the starter is not getting quite enough power if the cable is a bit frayed or corroded.

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2040802 03/28/16 11:08 PM 03/28/16 11:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Alright we've eliminated the batt. I'd bet on the starter now live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2040818 03/28/16 11:26 PM 03/28/16 11:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	the battery should be 12.8V or above without a charger on it. 14V is the charger, I bet it's not 14V when cranking. What does the voltage drop to when it cranks, without the charger on it? That will tell where your battery is. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: Supercuda] #2040834 03/28/16 11:52 PM 03/28/16 11:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Supercuda is right, see what your cranking voltage is (at the batt terminals) live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2040857 03/29/16 12:17 AM 03/29/16 12:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,563 Freeport IL USA poorboy I Live Here
poorboy I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,563 Freeport IL USA	I'd change the battery cables before I replaced the starter, just because. Are you just holding the key to crank for those 10 seconds and then the starter takes off, or are you cycling the key until it finally takes off after about 10 seconds of continuously turning the key from off to start? If your cycling the key off and on, and the battery has at least 12.8 volts, the starter is probably junk. Gene

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: poorboy] #2040901 03/29/16 01:23 AM 03/29/16 01:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Just one click then its most likely the solenoid contact is dirty. Seen it alot on the more modern small starters. If it was a cable or battery problem it would be low voltage which will make the solenoid clatter since when it conects the starter circuit to the battery the solenoid will drop back out because the starter draws what amps it can trying to work and the low voltage causes the solenoid to kick back out and as soon as it does the starter disengages and the voltage gets high enough to pull the solenoid back in. This happens over and over and causes the clattering like a machine gun sound. A low battery and low voltage will usually cause it to do that. Now if the battery cable was fully an open circuit it could do that. Try this.........turn your headlites on and then crank it and see what the headlites do. If they stay bright its an open circuit which is most likely a dirty solenoid contact. If the lights go dim it low voltage and if the lites go out its a very bad connection. Ron

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2040989 03/29/16 07:42 AM 03/29/16 07:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 247 Brisbane Australia C crash520 enthusiast
crash520 enthusiast C Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 247 Brisbane Australia	If you have an auto trans, check the N safety switch and the connections, my starter was great one day and click the next, it was the connection to the safety switch was loose, tightened the sockets up for the pins and been great ever since.

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: poorboy] #2041001 03/29/16 09:09 AM 03/29/16 09:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Originally Posted By poorboy I'd change the battery cables before I replaced the starter, just because. Are you just holding the key to crank for those 10 seconds and then the starter takes off, or are you cycling the key until it finally takes off after about 10 seconds of continuously turning the key from off to start? If your cycling the key off and on, and the battery has at least 12.8 volts, the starter is probably junk. Gene I am just holding the key in the start position and then after holding it for 10 secs it takes off. I'm not cycling it on and off.

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: 383man] #2041003 03/29/16 09:14 AM 03/29/16 09:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Originally Posted By 383man Just one click then its most likely the solenoid contact is dirty. Seen it alot on the more modern small starters. If it was a cable or battery problem it would be low voltage which will make the solenoid clatter since when it conects the starter circuit to the battery the solenoid will drop back out because the starter draws what amps it can trying to work and the low voltage causes the solenoid to kick back out and as soon as it does the starter disengages and the voltage gets high enough to pull the solenoid back in. This happens over and over and causes the clattering like a machine gun sound. A low battery and low voltage will usually cause it to do that. Now if the battery cable was fully an open circuit it could do that. Try this.........turn your headlites on and then crank it and see what the headlites do. If they stay bright its an open circuit which is most likely a dirty solenoid contact. If the lights go dim it low voltage and if the lites go out its a very bad connection. Ron I will give that a try. What is the fix for dirty solenoid contacts? New starter or can it be fixed easily?

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2041040 03/29/16 10:23 AM 03/29/16 10:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	you would have to pull the starter to get at the solenoid which is on the starter. i don't even know if you can get at the contacts to clean them. never tried since at that point i would hae just replaced the starter. you might be able to drench it in electrical contact cleaner and hope for the best?

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: mikemee1331] #2041066 03/29/16 11:10 AM 03/29/16 11:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,408 north of coder moparx "Butt Crack Bob"
moparx "Butt Crack Bob" Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,408 north of coder	i'll be willing to bet it's the contact set inside the solinoid. easy to replace and only costs about $7 for the set.

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: Supercuda] #2041448 03/29/16 10:02 PM 03/29/16 10:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Originally Posted By Supercuda the battery should be 12.8V or above without a charger on it. 14V is the charger, I bet it's not 14V when cranking. What does the voltage drop to when it cranks, without the charger on it? That will tell where your battery is. I did some further testing tonight. The battery voltage is at 12.0v without the charger on. When engaging the starter it drops to about 10.5v. This would seem low to me. The really funny part is that this evening the starter cranked on the first turn of the key, no delay at all. I cranked it 5-6 times and only once was there a delay for maybe 1 sec. All the other times it cranked right away.

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2041502 03/29/16 10:53 PM 03/29/16 10:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	10.5 looks good, the old spec from the 60's was 9.6 or better & you're well over that. I'd pull that starter live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2041554 03/29/16 11:38 PM 03/29/16 11:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	10.5 is ok, but your battery is a bit discharged at 12.0V, put it on a trickle charger over night, preferably a conditioning one. When there was the delay did the voltage drop as well? If not your issue is the starter, probably the contacts mentioned. Repair kit for the contacts. $13.38 http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4779651&cc=1087589&jsn=390 They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Strange starter problem [Re: dd340] #2042309 03/30/16 11:18 PM 03/30/16 11:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 7,196 Harrisburg, Pa. screamindriver master
screamindriver master Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 7,196 Harrisburg, Pa.	Another vote for checking/replacing the solenoid contacts...Common issue on that style starter with the exact symptoms you're describing..You'll be suprised how bad the contacts get and still work..By the time it gets to the point you're at just pull them out and spend a few dollars on new ones..

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