Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: jbc426]
#2043298
04/01/16 03:51 AM
04/01/16 03:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429 Sweden
Mopar Guy
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429
Sweden
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Perhaps there's a bit of a communication barrier between our posts regarding my statement. Opening all six barrels without a bog, hesitation or mis-fire at low rpm is not the issue. With the help of a wideband, I'm pretty confident my tune is pretty sharp at this point with the motor cranking out a respectable power curve beginning with over 500ft lbs of torque at 2000 rpm and culminating in 715 hp at 5500rpm. The drivability is excellent as well, especially with a Passon 5 speed and 3.73's.
In my comment about knowing how to drive them, I was referring to the concept of a driver keeping the velocity through the venturies at the maximum rate. Obviously, it varies depending on engine rpm and throttle blade positioning. You must be aware of this, and it's affect on power output during an rpm increasing throttle event. If the driver's ability to vary air velocity through the carbs isn't an issue, especially at low rpm, then why not adjust the progressive linkage to have all 3 carbs open at once? John one of the resone you dont open al 3 carbs in a lockt linkage is fuel consumtion but if you recurved the carb i gues you could but thats the resone there is a progresive linkage in a normal multipel carb system regarding your statement on that the BG six pack set flowing less than the original or 82-83 carbs you are wrong if you put al 3 carbs together and compare becas the BG will out flow both sets but for some resone BG state there flow rate wet and Holley dry mabee you have a to lean fuel curve on fast throttel opening or your retracted electrode on your sparkplugs dont like the low rpm or maybe you runners in the intake are to big for low rpm flow !? a stroket b&rb block almost always responds positive to more fuel and i stay away from rectrakted plugs on street and strip engine becas they only work great on hi reving engines if you realy whant max power out of the engine you need to race against the clock on the strip and try to jet up or down on the strip regardles of what the wideband say !
Last edited by Mopar Guy; 04/01/16 04:09 AM.
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Mopar Guy]
#2043444
04/01/16 12:44 PM
04/01/16 12:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298
West Coast, USA
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Perhaps there's a bit of a communication barrier between our posts regarding my statement. Opening all six barrels without a bog, hesitation or mis-fire at low rpm is not the issue. With the help of a wideband, I'm pretty confident my tune is pretty sharp at this point with the motor cranking out a respectable power curve beginning with over 500ft lbs of torque at 2000 rpm and culminating in 715 hp at 5500rpm. The drivability is excellent as well, especially with a Passon 5 speed and 3.73's.
In my comment about knowing how to drive them, I was referring to the concept of a driver keeping the velocity through the venturies at the maximum rate. Obviously, it varies depending on engine rpm and throttle blade positioning. You must be aware of this, and it's affect on power output during an rpm increasing throttle event. If the driver's ability to vary air velocity through the carbs isn't an issue, especially at low rpm, then why not adjust the progressive linkage to have all 3 carbs open at once? John one of the resone you dont open al 3 carbs in a lockt linkage is fuel consumtion but if you recurved the carb i gues you could but thats the resone there is a progresive linkage in a normal multipel carb system regarding your statement on that the BG six pack set flowing less than the original or 82-83 carbs you are wrong if you put al 3 carbs together and compare becas the BG will out flow both sets but for some resone BG state there flow rate wet and Holley dry mabee you have a to lean fuel curve on fast throttel opening or your retracted electrode on your sparkplugs dont like the low rpm or maybe you runners in the intake are to big for low rpm flow !? a stroket b&rb block almost always responds positive to more fuel and i stay away from rectrakted plugs on street and strip engine becas they only work great on hi reving engines if you realy whant max power out of the engine you need to race against the clock on the strip and try to jet up or down on the strip regardles of what the wideband say ! You are still missing my point. You are obviously well-informed. It's all good. My tune is fine. If you say 3 - 250cfm rated BG carbs flow more at 3" of vacuum than the three Holley's 960 cfm rated do at the 4-barrel rated measurement of 3" of vacuum; I'm not going to argue with you about that. You might have better measuring equipment than BG or Holley. However you came up with your flow ratings, the physical size of the throttle openings are in the BG's, are physically smaller, which is what I originally said. I understand that you believe they flow more, and you could very well be right. But, we are continuing to have some sort of communication issue, which is ok. It sounds like you are having great success with whatever it is you are doing, and I always enjoy hearing about Mopars being hot rodded in other countries.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Mopar Guy]
#2043779
04/01/16 07:02 PM
04/01/16 07:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906 IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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I read the BG carbs are significantly smaller than the Mopar Holleys. I love the DC mechanical carbs, but you have to know how they like to be driven. Nothing mysterious, but you can't mash them open at 2000 rpm and expect the port velocity to be high. You have been missinformed ! The flow are rated dry on some and wet on some so thats why the numbers vary but i have flow tested the outer stock Holley carbs that is rated to 500cfm and the BG carbs are only about 4 cfm under those BUT the center BG carb flow the same amount so al 3 carbs together in flow numbers the BG would be bigger and i can open mine from 1500 rpm to full in a 4 speed Challenger without any hesitation what so ever on a RB stroker of 505 cubes whit same cam as you use from Hughes so i gues you need to tune more then !? I think he is referring to the old DC mechanical carbs, those end carbs flow more than the stock vacuum 6 pack end carbs. They are basically a 850cfm DP cut in half, they have the slabbed throttle shafts. Flow is around 1050 to 1,100 true CFM. I can floor my DC mechanical 6bbl off idle and no bog, cough, backfire.. Just acceleration!!! I do have it on a tiny 365ci maybe 400hp demon with a 4,400rpm stall and drag radials! My A/F meter still showes it lean at WOT 13.5 with 77/78's on the end carbs, 64 center. Are you shore that the DC mecanical carbs list number 82 and 83 outer carbs have bigger venturi than the stock vacume !? i own two NOS sets of those and the throttel blades shore looks smaler on al 3 DC carbs ! Any way my BG six pack carbs as i stated before flow the same becaus they are same body and just about 4 cfm under the stock outer vacume carbs so they would have bigger flow numbers than the stock al 3 together as the stock center carb is way smaler than the outer carbs and they just work fantasic. You sure you have the right outer carbs mine are exactly like a 850dp, and the throttle blades are the thin type with slabbed shafts, stock 6 pack carbs have thicker throttle plates with full round shafts.
Last edited by ademon; 04/01/16 07:03 PM.
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: jbc426]
#2043824
04/01/16 07:58 PM
04/01/16 07:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429 Sweden
Mopar Guy
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429
Sweden
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Perhaps there's a bit of a communication barrier between our posts regarding my statement. Opening all six barrels without a bog, hesitation or mis-fire at low rpm is not the issue. With the help of a wideband, I'm pretty confident my tune is pretty sharp at this point with the motor cranking out a respectable power curve beginning with over 500ft lbs of torque at 2000 rpm and culminating in 715 hp at 5500rpm. The drivability is excellent as well, especially with a Passon 5 speed and 3.73's.
In my comment about knowing how to drive them, I was referring to the concept of a driver keeping the velocity through the venturies at the maximum rate. Obviously, it varies depending on engine rpm and throttle blade positioning. You must be aware of this, and it's affect on power output during an rpm increasing throttle event. If the driver's ability to vary air velocity through the carbs isn't an issue, especially at low rpm, then why not adjust the progressive linkage to have all 3 carbs open at once? John one of the resone you dont open al 3 carbs in a lockt linkage is fuel consumtion but if you recurved the carb i gues you could but thats the resone there is a progresive linkage in a normal multipel carb system regarding your statement on that the BG six pack set flowing less than the original or 82-83 carbs you are wrong if you put al 3 carbs together and compare becas the BG will out flow both sets but for some resone BG state there flow rate wet and Holley dry mabee you have a to lean fuel curve on fast throttel opening or your retracted electrode on your sparkplugs dont like the low rpm or maybe you runners in the intake are to big for low rpm flow !? a stroket b&rb block almost always responds positive to more fuel and i stay away from rectrakted plugs on street and strip engine becas they only work great on hi reving engines if you realy whant max power out of the engine you need to race against the clock on the strip and try to jet up or down on the strip regardles of what the wideband say ! You are still missing my point. You are obviously well-informed. It's all good. My tune is fine. If you say 3 - 250cfm rated BG carbs flow more at 3" of vacuum than the three Holley's 960 cfm rated do at the 4-barrel rated measurement of 3" of vacuum; I'm not going to argue with you about that. You might have better measuring equipment than BG or Holley. However you came up with your flow ratings, the physical size of the throttle openings are in the BG's, are physically smaller, which is what I originally said. I understand that you believe they flow more, and you could very well be right. But, we are continuing to have some sort of communication issue, which is ok. It sounds like you are having great success with whatever it is you are doing, and I always enjoy hearing about Mopars being hot rodded in other countries. John im gona try to explain this one last time then i give up ! Barry Grant mesiure and rate there wet flow and Holley mesiure there rate dry flow ! There is a hughe differens in numbers as if you rate the flow wet the numbers falls down compared to dry flow as Holley do so the numbers you are refering to if they are corekt (250cfm) is a wet flow ! I can reashore you that i do know what im doing and have been doing for the past 15 years on race car engines in development and inproving them.
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: ademon]
#2043839
04/01/16 08:09 PM
04/01/16 08:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429 Sweden
Mopar Guy
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429
Sweden
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Reply to ademon !
Im pretty sure but im not home ! Im dead shore they are the DC sold list number 82-83 carbs and i do have two NOS sets that never had fuel in them and one NOS throttel linkage that are realy rare to find ! I will look close at them when i get back home again. Do you know the size of your throttel blades ?
Last edited by Mopar Guy; 04/01/16 08:10 PM.
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Mopar Guy]
#2044173
04/02/16 03:36 AM
04/02/16 03:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298
West Coast, USA
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Perhaps there's a bit of a communication barrier between our posts regarding my statement. Opening all six barrels without a bog, hesitation or mis-fire at low rpm is not the issue. With the help of a wideband, I'm pretty confident my tune is pretty sharp at this point with the motor cranking out a respectable power curve beginning with over 500ft lbs of torque at 2000 rpm and culminating in 715 hp at 5500rpm. The drivability is excellent as well, especially with a Passon 5 speed and 3.73's.
In my comment about knowing how to drive them, I was referring to the concept of a driver keeping the velocity through the venturies at the maximum rate. Obviously, it varies depending on engine rpm and throttle blade positioning. You must be aware of this, and it's affect on power output during an rpm increasing throttle event. If the driver's ability to vary air velocity through the carbs isn't an issue, especially at low rpm, then why not adjust the progressive linkage to have all 3 carbs open at once? John one of the resone you dont open al 3 carbs in a lockt linkage is fuel consumtion but if you recurved the carb i gues you could but thats the resone there is a progresive linkage in a normal multipel carb system regarding your statement on that the BG six pack set flowing less than the original or 82-83 carbs you are wrong if you put al 3 carbs together and compare becas the BG will out flow both sets but for some resone BG state there flow rate wet and Holley dry mabee you have a to lean fuel curve on fast throttel opening or your retracted electrode on your sparkplugs dont like the low rpm or maybe you runners in the intake are to big for low rpm flow !? a stroket b&rb block almost always responds positive to more fuel and i stay away from rectrakted plugs on street and strip engine becas they only work great on hi reving engines if you realy whant max power out of the engine you need to race against the clock on the strip and try to jet up or down on the strip regardles of what the wideband say ! You are still missing my point. You are obviously well-informed. It's all good. My tune is fine. If you say 3 - 250cfm rated BG carbs flow more at 3" of vacuum than the three Holley's 960 cfm rated do at the 4-barrel rated measurement of 3" of vacuum; I'm not going to argue with you about that. You might have better measuring equipment than BG or Holley. However you came up with your flow ratings, the physical size of the throttle openings are in the BG's, are physically smaller, which is what I originally said. I understand that you believe they flow more, and you could very well be right. But, we are continuing to have some sort of communication issue, which is ok. It sounds like you are having great success with whatever it is you are doing, and I always enjoy hearing about Mopars being hot rodded in other countries. John im gona try to explain this one last time then i give up ! Barry Grant mesiure and rate there wet flow and Holley mesiure there rate dry flow ! There is a hughe differens in numbers as if you rate the flow wet the numbers falls down compared to dry flow as Holley do so the numbers you are refering to if they are corekt (250cfm) is a wet flow ! I can reashore you that i do know what im doing and have been doing for the past 15 years on race car engines in development and inproving them. Ok, Ok, since you keep wanting to focus on every issue but what I am talking about, I did some quick research on the flow ratings of both carbs. There is at least a 210 cfm difference between the stock Holley carbs compared to the BG's, and possibly even more of a difference between the mechanical secondary DC carbs, especially with a milled choke horn. So, its also a commonly accepted fact in all the information I found that a wet flowed BG 750 4-barrel is the equivalent of a dry flowed 850 Holley 4-barrel. If this holds true, your still only talking about 100 cfm more. If that is in fact the case, then there is no way the BG's flow more. There is a 210 cfm difference between the 960 cfm dry flowed Holleys and the 750 cfm wet flowed BG's. Maybe you've out research both Holley and BG in your 15 years of experience, but you haven't convinced me at this point, but then again you already gave your last gasp attempt at educating me. I do appreciate your efforts, and assure you I mean no disrespect.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Mopar Guy]
#2044209
04/02/16 08:31 AM
04/02/16 08:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298
West Coast, USA
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Good enough. Thanks for posting.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: greenmcode]
#2093525
06/17/16 02:56 PM
06/17/16 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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First thing holley jets out of the box are no where what the number says.. Try to get a set of pins and gauge the jets.. I run 84/86 on a stock stroke 440 with 906 heads that are cleaned up with a good valve job.. 11.97 comp. with a hyd flat tappet cam.. For instants the 86 jet is my 84.. Sounds like you are very lean.. Good luck.. That thinking doesn't matter.........OF COURSE the Holley jets aren't sized as the #`s say because they use the LENGTH and TAPER on the inlet/outlets of the jets for flow. Kinda like vacuum at idle and pv`s...........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2093554
06/17/16 03:49 PM
06/17/16 03:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126 Oregon
Jamie McGrath
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon
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How come stroker 6-pack guys don't look at the Holley 4412's for the center carb? They flow 500cfm out of the box.... And them roundy, roundy, guys have a few outlaw carbs that flow well over there 500cfm rating cfm. Just mill off the round back section so that the six pack base can sit on top call it done and few look twice?
Just wondering.....
Last edited by Jamie McGrath; 06/17/16 04:35 PM.
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Jamie McGrath]
#2093565
06/17/16 04:17 PM
06/17/16 04:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
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How come stroker 6-pack guys don't looks at the Holley 4412's for the center carb? They flow 500cfm out of the box.... And them roundy, roundy, guys have a few outlaw carbs that flow well over there 500cfm rating cfm. Just mill off the round back section so that the six pack base can sit on top call it done and few look twice?
Just wondering..... There are more than one street sixpak set up running like that In fact Holley use to make a 600 CFM two barrel for roundy round racing that had no venturi boosters in them at all, the fuel was fed through the sides of the main body The Carb Shop in Ontario,CA was buying those 500 CFM carbs. new and converting them for six paks many years ago back in the early 2000s
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/17/16 04:18 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2093573
06/17/16 04:33 PM
06/17/16 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126 Oregon
Jamie McGrath
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon
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How come stroker 6-pack guys don't looks at the Holley 4412's for the center carb? They flow 500cfm out of the box.... And them roundy, roundy, guys have a few outlaw carbs that flow well over there 500cfm rating cfm. Just mill off the round back section so that the six pack base can sit on top call it done and few look twice?
Just wondering..... There are more than one street sixpak set up running like that In fact Holley use to make a 600 CFM two barrel for roundy round racing that had no venturi boosters in them at all, the fuel was fed through the sides of the main body The Carb Shop in Ontario,CA was buying those 500 CFM carbs. new and converting them for six paks many years ago back in the early 2000s Thanks, if I were doing any 6 pack, big or normal that's the direction I would go in (4412) and no one would be any the wiser. I see 4412's going for dirt cheap on flea bay. You could even send it out for a tweek or two and still be into it cheaper than a new 2300 center pot. Even the hard core six-pack guy's don't catch them, even when there starring directly right at them 2ft away. That's my .02 worth.
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2093831
06/18/16 05:01 AM
06/18/16 05:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429 Sweden
Mopar Guy
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 429
Sweden
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How come stroker 6-pack guys don't looks at the Holley 4412's for the center carb? They flow 500cfm out of the box.... And them roundy, roundy, guys have a few outlaw carbs that flow well over there 500cfm rating cfm. Just mill off the round back section so that the six pack base can sit on top call it done and few look twice?
Just wondering..... There are more than one street sixpak set up running like that In fact Holley use to make a 600 CFM two barrel for roundy round racing that had no venturi boosters in them at all, the fuel was fed through the sides of the main body The Carb Shop in Ontario,CA was buying those 500 CFM carbs. new and converting them for six paks many years ago back in the early 2000s Cab i whas considering the roundy carbs when i whas looking for carbs that could breath better and mostly the center carb that realy made my stroker more alert up to 3200rpm so the throttel response inproved alot ! I just found these BG on Fle Bag first and became intrested as they are more uncommon i gues !
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Mopar Guy]
#2093954
06/18/16 02:37 PM
06/18/16 02:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,744
Bend,OR USA
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I was under the impression that the BG six pak carbs flowed less than the stock Hollet six pak carbs did I'm glad you helped straighten that myth out Thanks a LOT
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/18/16 02:38 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Jamie McGrath]
#2093975
06/18/16 03:09 PM
06/18/16 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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How come stroker 6-pack guys don't looks at the Holley 4412's for the center carb? They flow 500cfm out of the box.... And them roundy, roundy, guys have a few outlaw carbs that flow well over there 500cfm rating cfm. Just mill off the round back section so that the six pack base can sit on top call it done and few look twice?
Just wondering..... There are more than one street sixpak set up running like that In fact Holley use to make a 600 CFM two barrel for roundy round racing that had no venturi boosters in them at all, the fuel was fed through the sides of the main body The Carb Shop in Ontario,CA was buying those 500 CFM carbs. new and converting them for six paks many years ago back in the early 2000s Thanks, if I were doing any 6 pack, big or normal that's the direction I would go in (4412) and no one would be any the wiser. I see 4412's going for dirt cheap on flea bay. You could even send it out for a tweek or two and still be into it cheaper than a new 2300 center pot. Even the hard core six-pack guy's don't catch them, even when there starring directly right at them 2ft away. That's my .02 worth. My six pack had a 4412 center carb. And Barry Grant is a hack
Last edited by sixpackgut; 06/18/16 03:12 PM.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Stroker BB 6 pack jetting
[Re: Jamie McGrath]
#2094020
06/18/16 04:59 PM
06/18/16 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840 The Swamp
Sixpak
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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How come stroker 6-pack guys don't look at the Holley 4412's for the center carb? They flow 500cfm out of the box.... And them roundy, roundy, guys have a few outlaw carbs that flow well over there 500cfm rating cfm. Just mill off the round back section so that the six pack base can sit on top call it done and few look twice?
Just wondering..... I don't think the 4412 has the vacuum hose provisions for diaphragms on secondary end carbs; now mechanical sec. end carbs yea they may be a good choice.
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