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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: 67autocross] #2046679
04/04/16 10:47 PM
04/04/16 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted By 67autocross
One of my cars has 1.14s in it and you can lower the car down to the bump stops or all the way up to stock ride height, it really depends on the bar clocking. I was going to put 1.20s in it but they hit the headers on both sides and I didn't feel it was worth denting and bending them to fit the bigger bars.


Yeah, you may have to re-clock the bars. With zero offset bars your adjuster screw may not be in the center of its travel.
I haven't had any problems on my Challenger, but it doesn't look right with the screw in so far. On the race kit cars the hex on the crossmember was a bolt-in piece with a hex you'd weld after ride height was set and with the screw in the center of travel.

Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: geo.] #2046694
04/04/16 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted By geo.
Originally Posted By 67autocross
One of my cars has 1.14s in it and you can lower the car down to the bump stops or all the way up to stock ride height, it really depends on the bar clocking. I was going to put 1.20s in it but they hit the headers on both sides and I didn't feel it was worth denting and bending them to fit the bigger bars.


Yeah, you may have to re-clock the bars. With zero offset bars your adjuster screw may not be in the center of its travel.
I haven't had any problems on my Challenger, but it doesn't look right with the screw in so far. On the race kit cars the hex on the crossmember was a bolt-in piece with a hex you'd weld after ride height was set and with the screw in the center of travel.


The bars that worked well for me had 15 degree clocking, somebody should make a rear anchor mount that kit that is splined to allow you to change the alinement (clocking) without buying different bars.


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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: alltime] #2046703
04/04/16 11:13 PM
04/04/16 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted By alltime
which spring pack are you currently running?

If you had a heavy duty OEM set on there and the arch is what you want, you could take aonther main leaf and cut off the eye from each end and add it to your pack. That would get you pretty close.


I added one extra leaf on my 69 Valiant when that was not enough I just bought some shocks with adjustable compression damping...now i can just turn the dial to make the rear stiffer.


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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: 67autocross] #2046965
04/05/16 11:23 AM
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The bars that worked well for me had 15 degree clocking, somebody should make a rear anchor mount that kit that is splined to allow you to change the alinement (clocking) without buying different bars. [/quote]

Something like that would be great, wonder how hard it would be to remove the stock mount cleanly?

Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2047065
04/05/16 01:31 PM
04/05/16 01:31 PM
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Need to convert over to 48 spline Speedway splined swaybar size. Then you could use the infinite availability of 35" long gundrilled swaybars as torsion bars. The control arm would also need converted as well.


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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2047073
04/05/16 01:38 PM
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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: 72Swinger] #2048581
04/07/16 02:53 AM
04/07/16 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted By 72Swinger
What are your plans for rear springs?


Custom, hahaha. Going to aim for a high spring rate to match the stiff front and a 3" inward relocation of the leafs. Haven't decided on whether to go with steel springs or composite yet. I'd imagine a custom set of composites are more pricey than steel leafs, but I'd need to confirm that. Need to figure out how to translate wheel rates and leaf locations to spring rates. Also need to try and figure out the proper amount of free arch for a car that will end up with a heavy 1.75x.12 cage.

Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2048794
04/07/16 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted By lawndart
Need to figure out how to translate wheel rates and leaf locations to spring rates.


wheel rate - distance between spring mounts divided by distance between track width gives you the motion ratio. Multiply spring rate by motion ratio to get wheel rate.

Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: TC@HP2] #2048894
04/07/16 03:26 PM
04/07/16 03:26 PM
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On Leaf springs, you are talking roll rate rather them motion rate? work


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2049157
04/07/16 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted By lawndart
Originally Posted By 72Swinger
What are your plans for rear springs?


Custom, hahaha. Going to aim for a high spring rate to match the stiff front and a 3" inward relocation of the leafs. Haven't decided on whether to go with steel springs or composite yet. I'd imagine a custom set of composites are more pricey than steel leafs, but I'd need to confirm that. Need to figure out how to translate wheel rates and leaf locations to spring rates. Also need to try and figure out the proper amount of free arch for a car that will end up with a heavy 1.75x.12 cage.


How big of a tire are you planning on running? If it was me I would try and use the 3/4inch offset shackle kit and flair out the 1/4s before I would move the springs in the full 3inches


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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2049392
04/08/16 12:48 AM
04/08/16 12:48 AM
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Hyperco makes 225lb composites for $250to320 each.


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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: 67autocross] #2049397
04/08/16 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted By 67autocross
Originally Posted By lawndart
Originally Posted By 72Swinger
What are your plans for rear springs?


Custom, hahaha. Going to aim for a high spring rate to match the stiff front and a 3" inward relocation of the leafs. Haven't decided on whether to go with steel springs or composite yet. I'd imagine a custom set of composites are more pricey than steel leafs, but I'd need to confirm that. Need to figure out how to translate wheel rates and leaf locations to spring rates. Also need to try and figure out the proper amount of free arch for a car that will end up with a heavy 1.75x.12 cage.


How big of a tire are you planning on running? If it was me I would try and use the 3/4inch offset shackle kit and flair out the 1/4s before I would move the springs in the full 3inches


Was planning to start with 275s (probably 275/35r18->25.6" dia, 10.8" wide). Figured since I'm going to have to weld on new perches with an explorer 8.8 anyways, might as well go for mega tire clearance with minitub and 3" relocation. Not really sure what flaring the rear arch an a .75" relocation would get me in terms of tire width if the car is sitting roadrace low.

Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2049419
04/08/16 01:36 AM
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I had a 275 on the back of my Valiant with the 3/4 off set shackle kit, that would be getting close to as big as you could go, although you might even fit a 285 if you could find tires you liked in that size.


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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: jcc] #2050130
04/09/16 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted By jcc
On Leaf springs, you are talking roll rate rather them motion rate? work


You are correct, that is the roll rate on each rear wheel.

so..

roll rate - distance between spring mounts divided by distance between track width gives you the motion ratio. Multiply the static spring rate by motion ratio to get roll rate.

The wheel rate is the motion ratio squared then multiplied by the static spring rate.


Thanks for catching that.

Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2050585
04/09/16 07:49 PM
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I plan to add another full leaf to my Hotchkis springs, will see what they test out at after. Hoping to be in the 200 lb/in range. I added 2 half leafs last year as well.


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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2069708
05/08/16 11:05 PM
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Run into a bit of a problem. It seems the round on the FFI 1.24 TBs I got are bigger than the hex on the ends of the bars. The hex portions of the bar slide in easily but after a little bit of knocking the bar into the crossmember hex it is f*cking firmly stuck (drivers side), I think because the round is interfering with the hex socket. Was not able to knock it back through from the front side of the crossmember hex today, will try a slide hammer type approach from the back next time I work on it. I tried the passenger side without any tapping and the hex goes easily but it seems to stop up as soon as I get the round of the bar into the hex socket. On the non-stuck bar, I'm measuring 1.25 up to 1.275 in certain high spots, even without paint thickness.

Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2069715
05/08/16 11:15 PM
05/08/16 11:15 PM
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I guess you are the one who has finally found out "how big is too big" eek

Can you exchange them for another set that measures closer to 1.24"?

I'm sure FF will fix this promptly, they have a good and long reputation.

Last edited by jcc; 05/08/16 11:17 PM.

Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2069816
05/09/16 01:03 AM
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OR you could oval the hexes just enough to get them in, we're talking .010", you could probably use a half moon file and get it done. Then you will KNOW FOR A FACT you have the biggest A-body torsion bars ever. Wouldn't hurt a thing.


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Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: 72Swinger] #2073095
05/14/16 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted By 72Swinger
OR you could oval the hexes just enough to get them in, we're talking .010", you could probably use a half moon file and get it done. Then you will KNOW FOR A FACT you have the biggest A-body torsion bars ever. Wouldn't hurt a thing.


Not a bad suggestion, although it'd be a bit of PITA. May try that as soon as I can get the bar un-stuck. Need to call FF and see what they say.

Re: A-body Torsion Bars, How Big is Too Big? [Re: lawndart] #2075875
05/18/16 03:05 PM
05/18/16 03:05 PM
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So what happened?
I would be interested in them , if all it took was a little relieving on the rear socket, if for nothing else, for bragging rights. laugh2

Last edited by jcc; 05/18/16 03:06 PM.

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