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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2027958
03/09/16 04:47 PM
03/09/16 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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See? Photos of machine work can be very misleading.
The pics make it look almost scary rough.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: feets]
#2028000
03/09/16 05:55 PM
03/09/16 05:55 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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I have a 1977 440 truck block at home that had almost no ridge in the bores. The truck drove onto the trailer and I took it apart because it had a cast crank and low performance rods with low compression cast pistons. I pushed the pistons out without reaming the bores even though I have a Matco ridge reamer and have used it successfully before. It is my back up block for the race car as I only saved the block and the main caps.
As for your project, You really need to have the machine shop check the block for taper with what you have done to the cylinders, have them push out the cam bearings, all the soft plugs, remove the oil pump drive bushing, let the block have a bath in their hot tank and then if it needs a bore job (and it probably will)...just do it once. Unless you have unlimited time to spend chasing problems. JMHO
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2028015
03/09/16 06:20 PM
03/09/16 06:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
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Roadkill garage is a new show that did this exact sorta thing on a 351c. First episode is free on youtube for those interested. Dulich used diesel fuel as a lube the ball hone.
I want my fair share
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#2028019
03/09/16 06:31 PM
03/09/16 06:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,151
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,151
PA.
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Roadkill garage is a new show that did this exact sorta thing on a 351c. First episode is free on youtube for those interested. Dulich used diesel fuel as a lube the ball hone. I always use transmission fluid. I hone with it, clean the cylinders with it, coat the finished walls with it to prevent rusting, and assemble my engines with it. Not the bearings but instead of oil I coat my rings and pistons with it. I do many engines a year and never have an issue doing it this way.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2028037
03/09/16 07:02 PM
03/09/16 07:02 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,038
N.W. Florida
Fat_Mike
master
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master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,038
N.W. Florida
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And I used a lot of oil during honing, then cleaned with tranny fluid, then wiped wd40 on cylinders to prevent rusting If it's gonna sit more than a couple days, I'd suggest you get something better than WD40 on it. Transmission fluid is an excellent lubricant/penetrant, as suggested...
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2028170
03/09/16 10:42 PM
03/09/16 10:42 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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I took my block to Bud's machine shop here in Tacoma. Looks like my reaming job was too aggressive. He's going to check out the cylinders and see if they can be bored. I guess my hone job was ok though!
Lesson learned with ridge-reaming...
Do to my own mistakes, I probably wont get this engine done for under $2000 due to the fact Im getting some machine work done and will need new pistons and rotating assembly balanced. But, I've already made some money from parts I wont be reusing so we will see! Bud's machine shop is where the car in the picture got it's machine work done and the cam in the 360 is from Delta Cam. You won't go wrong there.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2035938
03/21/16 07:56 PM
03/21/16 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Adam71Charger
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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Alright, after 2 weeks of waiting got the block bored and honed +30, tanked and new cam bearings. Confirmed today.
In the meantime I was able to turn a good profit on the stuff I wouldnt be re-using from the engine. So, I decided to invest in some extras.
Tod at Marsh Performance is preparing some 84cc sidewinder heads with a bowl blend and isky springs for a solid cam and is setting me up with an adjustable 1.6 rocker/shaft kit for a good price. He says the springs will handle up to low 6 lift.
Got 440 source stock replacement forged rods, got my steel crank turned 10/10, and Ive found some TRW/Speed pro 6-pack pistons #L2355F.
So this is where Im at now, picking a cam. I cant find any information online about the max lift I can use with these pistons.
Calling a few cam grinders but always like to hear ya'lls opinions on cam selection.
Will probably be close to 10:1 without touching the decks and using the felpro .039 gasket. Would like to use thinner gasket, but don't know if its wise.. In fact, Ive been urged to zero deck the block which Id love to but dont know if I can afford it.
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2036119
03/21/16 11:42 PM
03/21/16 11:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
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Used procharger & call it a day. I'll never go back to N/A. Found one for my 4.8l in my brand X truck and made 369whp on 6.5lbs boost. Stock everything, going on 60,000 miles now. Got another used one I'm jigging up for my 72 440 with a pretty much stock bottom end.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2036210
03/22/16 01:59 AM
03/22/16 01:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Alright, after 2 weeks of waiting got the block bored and honed +30, tanked and new cam bearings. Confirmed today.
In the meantime I was able to turn a good profit on the stuff I wouldnt be re-using from the engine. So, I decided to invest in some extras.
Tod at Marsh Performance is preparing some 84cc sidewinder heads with a bowl blend and isky springs for a solid cam and is setting me up with an adjustable 1.6 rocker/shaft kit for a good price. He says the springs will handle up to low 6 lift.
Got 440 source stock replacement forged rods, got my steel crank turned 10/10, and Ive found some TRW/Speed pro 6-pack pistons #L2355F.
So this is where Im at now, picking a cam. I cant find any information online about the max lift I can use with these pistons.
Calling a few cam grinders but always like to hear ya'lls opinions on cam selection.
Will probably be close to 10:1 without touching the decks and using the felpro .039 gasket. Would like to use thinner gasket, but don't know if its wise.. In fact, Ive been urged to zero deck the block which Id love to but dont know if I can afford it. Another example, I didn't have to recut the pistons until I went to the solid roller. old 440 with 6-pack pistons
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2036532
03/22/16 03:49 PM
03/22/16 03:49 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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The motor that you are building is the twin of the first bracket 440 I built more than 30 years ago. It was a .030 over motor with the L2355F forged pistons, heavy rods, stock stroke steel crank, factory balance, iron "906" heads with stock size valves and factory porting. I last ran a DC solid cam 296 degree .557 lift and had no clearance issues. The car weighed 3,700# with driver and ran about 110 mph in the quarter. There are math formulas to determine horsepower based on weight and quarter mile speed. Your engine will have better heads and a pro assembly job, so if it does not run better than my old motor something is wrong with it. It should be fun to play with. Good luck.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2036568
03/22/16 04:53 PM
03/22/16 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
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I will now be looking for running motors when I do this sort of build again.
$183 to re-ring and put new bearings in a good motor has turned into $900 For new pistons, rods, rings, bearings, crank grind, not to mention $300 in machine labor to bore +30; hot tank; R&R cam bearings.
Sorry for your trouble but it turned into a $900 fiasco because you ran with bad advice ... look at it as an $$$ learning experience ... some jobs are better left to a professional. Buying a running engine is not a guarantee for success, at least you now know what you have. Hopefully you didn't put the same deep in the hole, crappy cast pistons, back in the motor.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: JohnRR]
#2036584
03/22/16 05:06 PM
03/22/16 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Adam71Charger
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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I will now be looking for running motors when I do this sort of build again.
$183 to re-ring and put new bearings in a good motor has turned into $900 For new pistons, rods, rings, bearings, crank grind, not to mention $300 in machine labor to bore +30; hot tank; R&R cam bearings.
Sorry for your trouble but it turned into a $900 fiasco because you ran with bad advice ... look at it as an $$$ learning experience ... some jobs are better left to a professional. Buying a running engine is not a guarantee for success, at least you now know what you have. Hopefully you didn't put the same deep in the hole, crappy cast pistons, back in the motor. DEFINITELY a learning experience. Thing is with a lot of non running motors the sellers (understandably) dont want to go through the hassle of digging out the motor from their garage or car and removing main/rod caps for inspection when there is no guarantee of purchase. Plus its hard to argue with $400 for a complete engine and tranny. Better chance of running engine having good bearings though I think. I think $900 is not bad for forged rods, crank and new 6pack pistons, & re-ring kit. True it was not what my original goal was, but in the long run Im getting better compression and more HP, and the engine will last longer
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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2036606
03/22/16 05:39 PM
03/22/16 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
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Just because an engine runs does not mean the inside is all good.
Look at any engine that is not machine shop fresh, with something more than a taillight a warranty, as a CORE and pay accordingly ... even from a friend.
I think you will be happier with what you have now and will easily reach your HP goal.
running up my post count some more .
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