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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: mopar dave]
#2028055
03/09/16 07:27 PM
03/09/16 07:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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You had run this crank, this block, these rods, at these clearances, with thicker oil and likely same type filter in the past with no issues. So WHAT changed. You heavily modded the oil passages, but you did a lot of what is standard procedure on many small block builds, so that shouldn't be an issue, unless it is broken through somewhere you aren't seeing. Now you say the rear cap is broken. That could have happened first, or as a result. If it broke first, would be a problem and usually a broken crank does that. Crank MAY be broke, will have to Mag it to see, IF you even care. If crank is broken, my GUESS would be the root of the problems...........but sometimes shizzit just happens and you never really know what happened first. If you are confident the machine work was right, your mods were sound, the clearances were right, it was assembled correctly and it just broke. Accept it for what it is, a bad break and move on. Don't let it make you question what you did or how you did it. We all want to say "this did it".......well sometimes you just don't know. So don't pin it on oil, filter, or anything else, unless you KNOW. If you have built several and then you break one, doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing or even did something wrong. Just keep on keeping on and file it as "bad break". It's happened to about everybody
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2028060
03/09/16 07:37 PM
03/09/16 07:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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You had run this crank, this block, these rods, at these clearances, with thicker oil and likely same type filter in the past with no issues. So WHAT changed. You heavily modded the oil passages, but you did a lot of what is standard procedure on many small block builds, so that shouldn't be an issue, unless it is broken through somewhere you aren't seeing. Now you say the rear cap is broken. That could have happened first, or as a result. If it broke first, would be a problem and usually a broken crank does that. Crank MAY be broke, will have to Mag it to see, IF you even care. If crank is broken, my GUESS would be the root of the problems...........but sometimes shizzit just happens and you never really know what happened first. If you are confident the machine work was right, your mods were sound, the clearances were right, it was assembled correctly and it just broke. Accept it for what it is, a bad break and move on. Don't let it make you question what you did or how you did it. We all want to say "this did it".......well sometimes you just don't know. So don't pin it on oil, filter, or anything else, unless you KNOW. If you have built several and then you break one, doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing or even did something wrong. Just keep on keeping on and file it as "bad break". It's happened to about everybody Agree with all of this except the last sentence. If you build engines for a living, or even do it as a hobby and say you never broke an engine, you either are lying about how many you built or how many you broke. EVERYBODY has broken an engine along the way. Or poked a hole in a head while porting. Everybody.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2028084
03/09/16 08:23 PM
03/09/16 08:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,181
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,181
PA.
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I took the thrust bearing out of a brand new 408 with a real stupid move that I should have caught. To save some time and labor I left the transmission in place and mated the engine to it. I didn't catch a tight fit on my convertor hub in the crank. K1 and Eagle cranks both had an issue years ago with not enough clearance. On start-up it pushed against the thrust taking it and blued two rods and took out the bearing from the trash in the oil. I lucked out with it only needing totally torn down, cleaned, cut the crank, new bearings, honed again, new rings, two rods, and two Diamond shelf pistons. I was about sick in my stomach over that one.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: madscientist]
#2028089
03/09/16 08:37 PM
03/09/16 08:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You had run this crank, this block, these rods, at these clearances, with thicker oil and likely same type filter in the past with no issues. So WHAT changed. You heavily modded the oil passages, but you did a lot of what is standard procedure on many small block builds, so that shouldn't be an issue, unless it is broken through somewhere you aren't seeing. Now you say the rear cap is broken. That could have happened first, or as a result. If it broke first, would be a problem and usually a broken crank does that. Crank MAY be broke, will have to Mag it to see, IF you even care. If crank is broken, my GUESS would be the root of the problems...........but sometimes shizzit just happens and you never really know what happened first. If you are confident the machine work was right, your mods were sound, the clearances were right, it was assembled correctly and it just broke. Accept it for what it is, a bad break and move on. Don't let it make you question what you did or how you did it. We all want to say "this did it".......well sometimes you just don't know. So don't pin it on oil, filter, or anything else, unless you KNOW. If you have built several and then you break one, doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing or even did something wrong. Just keep on keeping on and file it as "bad break". It's happened to about everybody Agree with all of this except the last sentence. If you build engines for a living, or even do it as a hobby and say you never broke an engine, you either are lying about how many you built or how many you broke. EVERYBODY has broken an engine along the way. Or poked a hole in a head while porting. Everybody. I believe most of us have had a issue at one time or another.. but it seems on this board that everyone is perfect and NEVER had ANY issues with ANYTHING.. as Dave has posted I did too with my issues.. only to get CRAP from a few.. looks like we should never post about things that dont work out right... and of course they probably NEVER built ANYTHING THEIR SELF but will [censored] about others 
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2028109
03/09/16 09:08 PM
03/09/16 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,285
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,285
fredericksburg,va
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You had run this crank, this block, these rods, at these clearances, with thicker oil and likely same type filter in the past with no issues. So WHAT changed. You heavily modded the oil passages, but you did a lot of what is standard procedure on many small block builds, so that shouldn't be an issue, unless it is broken through somewhere you aren't seeing. Now you say the rear cap is broken. That could have happened first, or as a result. If it broke first, would be a problem and usually a broken crank does that. Crank MAY be broke, will have to Mag it to see, IF you even care. If crank is broken, my GUESS would be the root of the problems...........but sometimes shizzit just happens and you never really know what happened first. If you are confident the machine work was right, your mods were sound, the clearances were right, it was assembled correctly and it just broke. Accept it for what it is, a bad break and move on. Don't let it make you question what you did or how you did it. We all want to say "this did it".......well sometimes you just don't know. So don't pin it on oil, filter, or anything else, unless you KNOW. If you have built several and then you break one, doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing or even did something wrong. Just keep on keeping on and file it as "bad break". It's happened to about everybody Agree with all of this except the last sentence. If you build engines for a living, or even do it as a hobby and say you never broke an engine, you either are lying about how many you built or how many you broke. EVERYBODY has broken an engine along the way. Or poked a hole in a head while porting. Everybody. I believe most of us have had a issue at one time or another.. but it seems on this board that everyone is perfect and NEVER had ANY issues with ANYTHING.. as Dave has posted I did too with my issues.. only to get CRAP from a few.. looks like we should never post about things that dont work out right... and of course they probably NEVER built ANYTHING THEIR SELF but will [censored] about others . If you post be prepared for all the replies, good and bad.
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: mopar dave]
#2028114
03/09/16 09:17 PM
03/09/16 09:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,600
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,600
Fulton County, PA
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I certainly wouldn't decide to not work on an oil system again. I know how much difference it made in my situation. Just need to decide what's appropriate for your combination of parts and RPM range.
After blowing one up, I became a believer in the System 1. If there's an oil problem like that, it will show up in the oil filter before it becomes catastrophic. I about wore the threads out on that trash can checking the filter on motor #2. At least until I felt like I'd gotten a handle on it.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2028115
03/09/16 09:17 PM
03/09/16 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You had run this crank, this block, these rods, at these clearances, with thicker oil and likely same type filter in the past with no issues. So WHAT changed. You heavily modded the oil passages, but you did a lot of what is standard procedure on many small block builds, so that shouldn't be an issue, unless it is broken through somewhere you aren't seeing. Now you say the rear cap is broken. That could have happened first, or as a result. If it broke first, would be a problem and usually a broken crank does that. Crank MAY be broke, will have to Mag it to see, IF you even care. If crank is broken, my GUESS would be the root of the problems...........but sometimes shizzit just happens and you never really know what happened first. If you are confident the machine work was right, your mods were sound, the clearances were right, it was assembled correctly and it just broke. Accept it for what it is, a bad break and move on. Don't let it make you question what you did or how you did it. We all want to say "this did it".......well sometimes you just don't know. So don't pin it on oil, filter, or anything else, unless you KNOW. If you have built several and then you break one, doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing or even did something wrong. Just keep on keeping on and file it as "bad break". It's happened to about everybody Agree with all of this except the last sentence. If you build engines for a living, or even do it as a hobby and say you never broke an engine, you either are lying about how many you built or how many you broke. EVERYBODY has broken an engine along the way. Or poked a hole in a head while porting. Everybody. I believe most of us have had a issue at one time or another.. but it seems on this board that everyone is perfect and NEVER had ANY issues with ANYTHING.. as Dave has posted I did too with my issues.. only to get CRAP from a few.. looks like we should never post about things that dont work out right... and of course they probably NEVER built ANYTHING THEIR SELF but will [censored] about others . If you post be prepared for all the replies, good and bad. Oh I know.. we have all these righteous people on here that have NEVER had a issue.. I know I wont say diddly from now on if I have a issue
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: mopar dave]
#2028143
03/09/16 10:06 PM
03/09/16 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,361
Wild West
M_D
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,361
Wild West
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Sorry I could not find the cause of the carnage for sure,so we could all learn from it. I will post if I do. Don't beat yourself up, but it would be good to find the cause if possible. As Monte said, sometimes it is impossible to know for certain. If I had to bet, after reading through all this, something in your oil system was amiss. If it were my engine I would carefully inspect all of the oil passages for places that were broke through, missing plugs, etc. Given the nature of cast iron it's not inconceivable a thin section of drilled out passage could break out just from oil pressure.
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: mopar dave]
#2028160
03/09/16 10:30 PM
03/09/16 10:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Maybe we should all confess to screwing an engine up...
When I was 16 someone gave me a 66 dart on the condition I could break in the trunk and get his stuff out(he lost his keys), I pulled the back seat out and handed him his stuff and he handed me a title... the 273 had a nasty knock, tore the engine down had a spun rod bearing, new bearings were still loose so I stuck a flat hose clamp behind the top rod bearing and put it together, the supprising thing looking back is that it lasted 2000 miles includeing a trip from abilene tx to nashville tn, after I moved there it started knocking and it blew about 5000 RPM in 2nd gear one day and split the block in half up all 5 mains to the cam tunnel as well as various other obliterated parts.
Next engine I put together was a slant six for my moms full size van, I had a heart atack when I started it and it was knocking real loud, turned out I had not checked clearance to the oil pick up.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: mopar dave]
#2028164
03/09/16 10:36 PM
03/09/16 10:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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My first stroker was a 318 I had bored to 4.00 after sonic testing, split 3 cylinders in the forst 10 miles, found some real big places (pretty much all of it) with about 1/2 the thickness the machine shop told me it was. They refused to do ANYTHING to help me.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2028180
03/09/16 10:58 PM
03/09/16 10:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,181
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,181
PA.
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Very VERY off topic but just to show how fast things can go wrong. My Uncle a mechanic by trade for all his life was doing a brake job (front disks) for my Dad on his motorhome at Dads house. My Dad was sitting there keeping him company and my Uncle dropped the back pad while sliding the caliper into position. He picked it up and put it back in the caliper and finished the job. We left for Ocean City the next evening and we would stop for the night at Breezewood. It was mostly all turnpike and while were eating my Dad said his brakes were noisy. I climbed under the motorhome to take a peak and couldn't believe what I saw. The brake pad was installed with the metal side towards the rotor. I didn't have the proper tools to do the job so a shop at the bottom of the hill flipped it around to get us going. Had to buy new rotors and new pads when we got back home from vacation. You now what they say, poop happens.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: mopar dave]
#2028216
03/09/16 11:46 PM
03/09/16 11:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
SCATPACK 1
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
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the block,crank and rods came from the last build I had and it went 8yrs. hate to hear about your broke engine. I think the rods may have been fatigues if you had used them for 8 years prior to this build. I used to race Hemi's in Super stock and never had an issue for the first 3 + years running 3 nights each week and turning it 8000+ every trip down the track. Then we broke a rod in my good motor and went to the back up and it later broke a rod too. I had rebuilt the rods every winter in both motors with new bolts on a regular basis, but metal does fatigue after a while of continuous cycling. Good luck with the new build. Jerry
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: carnage at the dyno
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2028314
03/10/16 02:27 AM
03/10/16 02:27 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,458
Martinsville, IN
cdwmotorsports
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,458
Martinsville, IN
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Maybe we should all confess to screwing an engine up... Uhh hi my names Chad and I've broke some stuff, the 451 in my Demon has been down twice since its build, first time not sure why it bent a rod but it did it was tight from get go. New builder and much free'er second time around had ran great then it wiped a cam lobe. It is down now being fixed. The cam lobe happened 5 years ago, someone told me it was likely an issue with removal of zinc. Was it  but it's getting fixed finally. Hope it doesn't happen again.
eBay-cdwmotorsports
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